compiled by Brent Raynes

The Abduction of Kathy and Cindy - Part 2

(Washington State, Labor Day weekend 1975)

From the Files of U.F.O.C.C.I (UFO Contact Center International)

INTRODUCTION

The following report records the facts in an alleged UFO abduction case involving two sisters in Washington State on Labor Day weekend 1975. To protect the family, the names have been changed but the essential data of the case is reported. For this report we shall call the two sisters Kathy and Cindy. Kathy was 16 and Cindy 15 at that time. Since then Kathy has married and has a child. Cindy has had a very traumatic time as a direct result of that abduction. Since the abduction occurred she has been hospitalized several times, gone through hypnotherapy, and at the present time has returned to a normal family life.

Phenomena Research Director Robert J. Gribble, and investigator Jacob Davidson, made the initial investigation in 1976 and subsequent follow-up in 1978 was done by Dan and Aileen Edwards, (then) directors of the UFO Contact Center.

At the initial interview it was decided to first hypnotize the oldest girl Kathy. This session was witnessed by Davidson, Gribble and the girl’s mother. Kathy was led through a basic outline of what happened, and instructed not to remember. An attempt to hypnotize Cindy was made unsuccessfully. This session was conducted by [name whited out], a hypnotist in Seattle, Washington.

For Part 1 click here.

In Part 1 of this report, we reviewed the UFO encounter and a variety of unusual details, as well as physical and psychological disturbances connected with this case, involving two teenaged sisters named Cindy and Kathy (not their actual names). Herein continues that report where we left off in the March issue of Alternate Perceptions, with the hypnosis (12-26-78) of Cindy:

Hypnotist: ...Something is coming to you. When I count to three you will be more relaxed and able to talk about it. One... two... three...

Cindy: They did something to Kathy.

Hypnotist: They did something to Kathy? What did they do?

Cindy: They changed her. I mean she doesn’t know who I am.

Hypnotist: OK. How did they change her so she doesn’t know who you are?

Cindy: She was just like that...like I was when I was standing up by the door... I never knew what was going on around me and she walked by the door and she didn’t even know who I was.

Hypnotist: By the open door of the white room?

Cindy: It wasn’t open all of the time. Just when she walked by there they opened it but she looked in and she didn’t know who I was. Back down at the car she wasn’t acting right either.

Hypnotist: Like she didn’t remember who you were?

Cindy: I don’t know, we were just....I don’t know...she just wasn’t acting right.

Hypnotist: You are going deeper now, 10...9...8...going even deeper, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 your memory is even clearer, 2...1. Did you see them do anything to Kathy?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Well was she in another place when this was done you suppose?

Cindy: She must have been. If there were 3 of me,there was 3 of her too cause the only two I saw went after ____.

Hypnotist: OK. Where do you think the real you was? If there were 3 of you, where was the real you?

Cindy: I was on the table. It wasn’t me in the car and the on at the door.... that wasn’t me.

Hypnotist: The one at the car wasn’t you and the one at the door wasn’t you, you were on the table at that time, alright. You started to remember something else, what was that? You can speak, come on.

Cindy: They pointed something at my stomach that was sharp.

Hypnotist: At your stomach? Did they poke you with it?

Cindy: I think they were kind of kidding about it or something. I don’t think they were going to really.

Hypnotist: Do you mean they were kidding about poking you in the stomach with a stick, or something sharp?

Cindy: If I went back and I told anybody then they were going to put that through me or something like that but I wasn’t gonna, I already said I wasn’t.

Hypnotist: They were going to put that through your stomach?

Cindy: I don’t know if they really would.

Hypnotist: OK. They said they were going to stick you now with that thing if you went back and told, is that what they said?

Cindy: I don’t think they were gonna really.

Hypnotist: OK. You say they were kidding about it. Did they seem like some kind of joke or laugh?

Cindy: Yeah. That wasn’t what they were really going to do but they were going to do something.

Hypnotist: What did they do with it?

Cindy: They just put it away.

Hypnotist: Did they hold it over your stomach or something?

Cindy: They were just poking it at me and then they just put it away.

Hypnotist: How big was it? What did it look like? Look at it carefully an tell me what it looked like. Did it actually touch your stomach?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: OK.

Cindy: It looked like an ice pick but a little bit longer.

Hypnotist: Like an ice pick but longer. You mean a longer point?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: OK. Did it seem like some mean teasing they were doing to you?

Cindy: I don’t know if it was really mean. They just thought it was funny I think, but I didn’t.

Hypnotist: They didn’t want you to tell?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Why was that?

Cindy: I don’t know. They just didn’t want me to.

Hypnotist: OK. Now, what is going on now?

Cindy: I was thinking about taking it and jabbing one of them and they got kind of mad.

Hypnotist: You were going to take the ice pick thing and jab one of them?

Cindy: Or just hit them or something.

Hypnotist: And they got kind of mad?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Did you grab for it?

Cindy: I just thought about it.

Hypnotist: Oh I see, and they knew what you were thinking?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: I see. And...

Cindy: I didn’t really mean it or anything. I wasn’t gonna. It wouldn’t of helped anyway. They just put it away.

Hypnotist: Where did they put it away?

Cindy: I don’t know. One of them just walked away with it.

Hypnotist: OK. Tell me how these people looked. You say they looked an awful lot alike. Describe what they were wearing.

Cindy: They were wearing one piece suits.

Hypnotist: Well one piece. Did it cover all their body or what? How about the head?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Didn’t cover the head? Covered up to the neck did it?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Tell me all about it as much as you can.

Cindy: I don’t (know) that they were all the same because some were just wearing all white and some were wearing silver. They were all made the same. They were all light colored.

Hypnotist: What else? What about their feet? What was on them?

Cindy: I think it was just part of the suit or connected to it.

Hypnotist: It all went together huh? OK. How tall were these people?

Cindy: Six foot probably.

Hypnotist: They were bigger than you?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Did they seem strong?

Cindy: They were not really strong. They were smarter.

Hypnotist: They seemed smarter?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Could you tell how much smarter?

Cindy: Quite a bit. Anything you could think of doing they would already know it before hand. I don’t know, they were just all round smart.

Hypnotist: You say they did get angry, huh? When you thought about poking them with the stick?

Cindy: Not for very long.

Hypnotist: Did they make any sounds at all?

Cindy: No. I just observed that they were kinda mad but they weren’t really.

Hypnotist: Did they have green eyes?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: What color of eyes did they have?

Cindy: Blue.

Hypnotist: Did they look pretty much like people?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: If you saw one on the street would you realize that it was...did you ever see anyone in your day to day life that looked like these individuals?

Cindy: They were just too perfect.

Hypnotist: Very perfect, huh?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Did they all seem to be same size and height and look alike, huh?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: And yet, you knew that one was a woman, how come?

Cindy: I don’t know. I just knew.

Hypnotist: OK. These cabinets you say....or what do you call them counters?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Were they against the wall?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: What else now, you can remember something else that happened. You can remember something else that happened that we haven’t talked about before. OK. What is it?

Cindy: They took my dog.

Hypnotist: OK. They took your dog. Where did they get him?

Cindy: He was next to me in the car. He was gone for awhile.

Hypnotist: The dog was gone for awhile? And what did they do with the dog?

Cindy: I don’t know because I couldn’t find out.

Hypnotist: Did you know about this when you were in the white room?

Cindy: I could hear him.

Hypnotist: You could hear the dog? What kind of sounds was it making?

Cindy: I don’t know. Just barking a little bit.

Hypnotist: Any other sounds?

Cindy: I think she was crying.

Hypnotist: You mean whining or whimpering?

Cindy: She always does that though.

Hypnotist: How big a dog is she?

Cindy: Very small. It’s a toy poodle.

Hypnotist: How did they get the dog back to you?

Cindy: She was just there again.

Hypnotist: OK. In a moment to help us get a better picture I am going to have you do some drawings for us. You will be able to do that quite simply. Just remain deeply asleep.

Instructing her to sit up, take pad of paper. This is a pencil. Project room on paper. Open eyes, trace out white room. Look at it on paper, trace it. Everything you see in the white room. Open your eyes, sit right up and go [which she did]

OK. Now looking at the picture is there anything else you can trace on there?

Cindy: A light bulb, but I can’t trace it in.

Hypnotist: You can’t trace it in because it is above, huh? Where is your place?

Cindy: Right there.

Hypnotist: You are seeing this as though you are away from it right? So you must have stood away from it one time to see that. What is this over here?

Cindy: That is the door.

Hypnotist: OK. And this is the cabinet. Can you show me anything that is on the wall back there?

Cindy: Nothing on the walls.

Hypnotist: The walls are smooth?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: And this is the glass tube? Are there any doors or drawers. Look carefully and see if there are any.

Cindy: Looked further down and there was just a cabinet that went along the bottom.

Hypnotist: How about over the top here?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Just went up to eh ceiling. Was it flat on the ceiling?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: This was the door?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: This is where Kathy came and looked through?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: You said the door was closed part of the time. How did it look then? Was there a push button or a handle or anything there?

Cindy: I couldn’t see anything. I just looked up and it was open.

Hypnotist: And you saw Kathy?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Which end was your head on?

Cindy: This end.

Hypnotist: OK. Your feet were where, down there naturally. You said you covered most of the space on that table.

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Alright. We are going to draw another picture. Just close your eyes a moment and go deeper...10...9...8...etc. Now on this paper the outline of the control room area that you were looking at...open your eyes and on the count of 3 trace it on the paper...1...2...3...draw it now. You can see it clearer and clearer now. Can you see alright?

Cindy: I can’t draw this because there were just knobs on the wall.

Hypnotist: Well just trace around it then. Just some of them.

Cindy: This is hard because there were people.

Hypnotist: Well just trace around the people sitting in front of it then. The picture is clearer and clearer now. You are doing extremely well. Just continue to draw as I talk. [Switched pencil from right hand to left hand. Said it didn’t make any difference. Drawing continued. After about 10 minutes subject quit drawing.]

Can you show me where you were standing in the drawing? Put an X where you were standing. Over on the right hand margin I want you to draw a picture of how the door looked. I know it was here but I want you to draw the door as it appeared.

Cindy: It curved in to the top.

Hypnotist: Over here draw how it would look if you saw it from the edge. Now you were standing in front of the door. Can you tell me where your head comes on that door?

Cindy: To there.

Hypnotist: Mark on right hand side of door is simply the height of where the head comes. That is not part of the door at all. You mentioned something like a pushbutton or some such thing. Where is that?

Cindy: It is in a little box.

Hypnotist: A little box. Did it stick out from the wall?

Cindy: The button did.

Hypnotist: The box too?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: That is what was used to open the door. Now what is above here do you recall? As you stood here and looked across, what was above here?

Cindy: Nothing.

Hypnotist: Is that the top?

Cindy: It’s just starting to curve up. It’s not the top.

Hypnotist: Oh, I see. It is curving back this way? OK. Good. I want you to close your eyes and go into a deep trance. 1...2...3...Now Cindy I am going to ask you a question and I want you to give me a good answer. The best that you can. Is it alright (did not ask question on tape) Now you are in the third position also and I am going to take a page and this time I want you to draw what the ship looked like from the outside. [This is done, by the way, with her right hand.] I will count to 3, open your eyes and sit up and I want you to project the picture onto the page and trace it just like the other pictures you have just done for me. OK. 1...2...3... Is that the end of it?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Can you see anything else?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Can you tell me what that is?

Cindy: Door.

Hypnotist: Where is the top of the ship?

Cindy: There.

Hypnotist: OK. Put a mark where the car is. How big do you think that is from one edge to the other from here to there? Do you know how big a football field is? Did you ever see one at school? Is it bigger or littler than that?

Cindy: Bigger.

Hypnotist: That must be a really big door then.

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: And this here?

Cindy: A light.

Hypnotist: A light. OK. Is that where the light came from? You talked about a yellow light. Did it come from there?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: You talked about another colored light. What color was that?

Cindy: A green light ad a red light.

Hypnotist: Did they all come from this? (Indicating place on the drawing)

Cindy: Uh huh.

Hypnotist: They all came through this. Does that make sense to you?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Alright, is there any other pictures you can draw? That you saw?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Alright. I want you to go back and look at the first picture that you drew. Is there anything that you can add to that picture now? See the scene projected on your mind on the picture on the pad of paper.

Cindy: There was just things laying on the counter. Not all of the time. They would take them away.

Hypnotist: Do you think you could draw one of those things that was on the counter? OK. That is what they aimed at your stomach with?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: When I count to 3 you will open your eyes and you will see projected on this pad of paper oneof the individuals you saw on the inside of the ship. As you told me they all look quite a bit alike. You will be able to draw one, just trace around and put in the facial details of the individuals. You will simply be tracing. Do you understand that? You will see one of those individuals in color. I want you to draw the picture by tracing as clearly, accurately and neatly as possible. 1...2...3...

That is very good Cindy. Now as you look at that picture I want you to look and see if there are any insignias on the outside of the clothing.

Cindy: No, it is all white.

Hypnotist: Now the ones that look silver. Do they look the same way?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Now you mentioned three individuals. Is that one of the individuals?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Which individual is it?

Cindy: Not the girl.

Hypnotist: Can you show me how the girl looked?

Cindy: She looked the same but I knew she was a girl.

Hypnotist: Did these feet down below there...is that shoes or what is it?

Cindy: It is the shoe part...it is hooked on to the rest of it.

Hypnotist: It is all one piece. What is this?

Cindy: It is a “V” on it.

Hypnotist: It’s a “V.” Is it an open “V” like a V-necked shirt?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: It’s a design?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: What color is it?

Cindy: White.

Hypnotist: How do you know it is a design?

Cindy: Because it kind of goes in there. It is sewed on there.

Hypnotist: Something put on the outside?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Like an applique?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Does it have thickness? Can you draw a clearer picture of it over here? A bigger picture?

Cindy: (Drawing the “V”)

Hypnotist: What is between here and here?

Cindy: It just comes back up again.

Hypnotist: Does the arm come out of here or where does the arm come out of?

Cindy: Nearby (indicating where)

Hypnotist: OK. Now can you make a note on there, explanatory notes or anything? That is quite a decision. Alright. Look at your drawing. Is there anything that you would like to comment on or explain that you haven’t been able to draw?

Cindy: It is just like the silver ones. It is all sewn in together. Its got shiny white like this. It’s just like that up there. It’s sewn on the material.

Hypnotist: It seems to be sewn into the other part. Are the hands behind the individual or are they in the pockets?

Cindy: Behind them.

Hypnotist: And that is the way you saw this one?

Cindy: Um hum.

Hypnotist: Was there one standing there like that quite a bit?

Cindy: He was behind me and kind of to the side.

Hypnotist: That is why you put him cross wise, huh? The way you saw him. Would you mind any other questions if I ask Dan or Aileen could you answer a question?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: They will ask you questions one idea at a time.

Dan: When you started t talk about this being can you tell me what the top of his head was like?

Cindy: Square head.

Dan: Did he have hair?

Cindy: Yes. It was white. Just real white.

Dan: How far did the hair come down to the side of his face?

Cindy: Just about to his shoulders.

Dan: Did he resemble a hippy?

Cindy: A little bit.

Dan: Was the hair in a style or was it out?

Cindy: It was just cut straight across.

Dan: Did his hair have a part in it?

Cindy: No, not really.

Dan: Move down to his eyes. Did his eyes have color?

Cindy: Blue.

Dan: Was that the center of the eye or was the whole eye blue?

Cindy: The whole eye was blue.

Dan: Did he have a center?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: In your drawing you show a pupil, and what looks like a white area. Was it all blue or different shades of blue?

Cindy: Light blue but it was all blue.

Dan: Let’s go down to his face. What color was his face?

Cindy: White.

Dan: What color of white?

Cindy: Just all white.

Dan: What was the texture of his skin?

Cindy: I think it was smooth.

Dan: Did it look soft or hard?

Cindy: Soft.

Dan: Let’s go down to his mouth. Did he have lips?

Cindy: No.

Dan: What did he have?

Cindy: It was just a line. He never opened it.

Dan: Let’s go to the side of his head. Is there any protrusions on the side of his face?

Cindy: Yes.

Dan: Did he have ears?

Cindy: Yeah.

Dan: Let’s go back to te center of his face. Describe his nose to us.

Cindy: It was just a little box on it.

Dan: A little box?

Cindy: It was just square.

Dan: Was there any holes in it?

Cindy: No.

Dan: Did it protrude from his face?

Cindy: Yes.

Dan: How far?

Cindy: An inch maybe. Maybe a couple of inches.

Dan: Did it seem long to you?

Cindy: No.

Dan: Let’s move down to his shirt, or what appears to be the front of it. You drew a “V”. Beside this being you drew a larger “V.” How wide apart are the lines on the larger “V”?

Cindy: One inch.

Hypnotist: That’s about _ life size.

Dan: What color was that?

Cindy: White. Some of it was shiny though. That was shiny. The “V” was shiny.

Hypnotist: The “V” neck appeared to be shiny. What about down here on his trousers? Anything like that there?

Cindy: It was too.

Hypnotist: Go ahead Dan.

Dan: Was the color between the shirt and the pants the same?

Cindy: Yes.

Dan: What about the shoes?

Cindy: It was the same.

Hypnotist: Cindy, here is the pad and the pencil. When I count to 10 you will go deeper. 1...2...3... Are you relaxed? Can you continue for awhile now?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: When I count to 3 I want you to open your eyes and look at one of the drawings you did earlier. Open your eyes and sit up. This particular drawing is Cindy’s visualization of where she stood where the X is and looked across at a console in a control room. The door was there behind her. This is the drawing of the door. This is the side view of it if you were looking at it from a side view. In other words, that is the curvature. This is how high she was and this is the control button for the door. It is next to the door and has nothing to do with the door itself. Now Cindy looking at that picture is there anything in there that you have been unable to draw that you would like to add to it or that you had difficulty drawing?

Cindy: There were people walking back and forth. They didn’t stand in the same position. They would turn around and get up.

Hypnotist: There seems to be somebody half turned in the chair. Is that true?

Cindy: Yes. Reading something.

Hypnotist: OK. Describe what the other people are doing at the moment this picture is drawn.

Cindy: There is somebody pushing on the bottons and turning the knobs. There were little lights.

Hypnotist: What are those straight lines Cindy?

Cindy: I don’t know. They moved something on them.

Hypnotist: They would move the lights?

Cindy: The little buttons on them. They just moved them over.

Hypnotist: Like sliders on them, they would move them? From back and forth, along those lines, is that what you are saying?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: These look larger than those. Are these the same type of thing?

Cindy: Um Huh. Those had numbers or something, marks on them.

Hypnotist: Did you see any insignias or symbols, something that you can write up here or reproduce? Look closely at some spot on that board and enlarge it in your mind and draw it up here.

.....Is that lettering or drawing? Or symbols?

Cindy: I couldn’t tell. It was too far away.

Hypnotist: These people were all the same height, were they?

Cindy: Some of them were bending down.

Hypnotist: At this time there was no one in this chair?

Cindy: That person went down the hall.

Hypnotist: The hall here. What is this curve? Is this an opening or what?

Cindy: Just curved a little. I couldn’t see anything, it was...

Hypnotist: Was it a curved hallway, is that what you are saying? The hallway itself was curved? Would you write curved hallway out there? OK? The curved away and just kind of ran into the hallway.

Cindy: Just curved right here.

Hypnotist: Could you trace the curve of that hallway from where you could see at your position? So you could see down into here and it curves into there. OK? Is there anything else on that...when you looked at the ship was there any marks on the outside of it? Like an insignia? Designs?

Cindy: On the floor there was just the way the shirts were.

Hypnotist: On the floor? On what part, on this floor?

Cindy: Right there.

Hypnotist: What color were they? Go ahead and draw it if you like. OK. That was the design on the floor of the ship? What color was it Cindy?

Cindy: White.

Hypnotist: Was it a different shade of white or a texture?

Cindy: It was not a different shade. It was raised a bit, not very much.

Hypnotist: Did you see any books, printing or anything else in the entire experience?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Any signs, doorway symbols or anything that looked like instructions or...symbols. Printing.

Cindy: Not close enough for me to see.

Hypnotist: Of these people did any of them seem to be in charge?

Cindy: They didn’t talk to each other at all. They just knew what they were supposed to do.

Hypnotist: They did what they were supposed to do? They didn’t have to talk?

Cindy: They didn’t need to. They knew what to do.

Hypnotist: OK. Let me have the drawing again. I am going to count to 3 and I want you to go back into deep trance. 1....2...3... Now you once described some part of a dream where you were speaking a different language. Do you recall that?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Could you tell me about that dream? It comes very clearly to your mind now.

Cindy: I wasn’t talking. It was just sounds.

Hypnotist: Sounds? I want you to describe the sounds to me.

Cindy: Just those high pitched noises.

Hypnotist: High pitched noises. Can you duplicate them for me with your own mouth and teeth and throat?

Cindy: I couldn’t. They were like a flute.

Hypnotist: A flute? A flute sound.

Cindy: Higher pitched only. An octave higher than an ordinary flute.

Hypnotist: Was that some sort of language?

Cindy: I don’t know. Just some of the sounds they would do, you would do something, like get up out of the chair.

Hypnotist: They made the sounds?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Was it a piping high pitched sound? So apparently they were communicating, is that what you were saying?

Cindy: I guess so.

Hypnotist: Was this in your dream?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Was this on board the ship?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: But you didn’t think of it as a language at that time?

Cindy: (No answer)

Hypnotist: OK. Lets go back to the white room for a moment. Can you do that? In the white room you drew a picture of the white room awhile ago. You say you took most of the space on that table?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: The table seems to be long enough for the people in that room?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: The glass tube is standing there?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Can you see clear through it?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Was there anything in it?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: How do you know?

Cindy: I just knew. I just looked at it once and I knew I wasn’t supposed to touch it.

Hypnotist: You told me once that you weren’t supposed to tell. Remember that?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: And what do you do about that?

Cindy: I don’t know. They just said that something bad would happen.

Hypnotist: Did you believe that?

Cindy: A little bit I did. One guy didn’t like me.

Hypnotist: One of them didn’t like you?

Cindy: The one behind me didn’t like me.

Hypnotist: Did one of the other ones like you?

Cindy: They were OK.

Hypnotist: The other ones were OK but there was a bad one. How about this third one?

Cindy: It was OK.

Hypnotist: Indifferent? Did any one of those three seem to be in charge?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Which one?

Cindy: The one that was standing next to me.

Hypnotist: The one that didn’t like you?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: The one who was standing beside you? He was in large? Was he dressed differently than the others?

Cindy: He wore the silver.

Hypnotist: He wore the silver and the others wore the white, is that right?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Did he seem like perhaps an officer from the ship, or what?

Cindy: He could have been.

Hypnotist: But you don’t know. Alright, what else do you see in the room that you never recalled before? In the white room.

Cindy: There was nothing in there.

Hypnotist: Nothing else in there?

Cindy: Hum um. No.

Hypnotist: Why did they show Kathy to you?

Cindy: I don’t know.

Hypnotist: Even though she didn’t recognize you.

Cindy: She didn’t.

Hypnotist: OK. I want you to remember the time when you went back to the car. I want you to remember this as carefully as possible. You are in the white room. I am going to count to three and you will see in detail each step you took going back to the car. You will remember in detail how long it took, how you got there. When I count to 3 you will recall that and tell me about it.

Cindy: NO

Hypnotist: You don’t want to talk about that yet?

Cindy: NO

Hypnotist: Can you tell me why you don’t want to talk about it?

Cindy: I am not supposed to.

Hypnotist: But you do know, don’t you?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: But you see, you can tell me now, it is safe. Do you realize it is safe now?

Cindy: NO it is not!

Hypnotist: It is not?

Cindy: They said they would do something to me.

Hypnotist: Like what?

Cindy: I don’t know.

Hypnotist: Do you think they will?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Why?

Cindy: Cause that one in back of me said he would. He doesn’t like me.

Hypnotist: Yes, but do you think he knows how? Do you think he can actually do it?

Cindy: He doesn’t like me!

Hypnotist: I don’t think he actually can, do you? You know, he had to let you go, didn’t he?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: If he could really hurt you he would have had to done it then. He could have done anything he wanted to then, couldn’t he? But he can’t do that now. You own yourself Cindy. You belong to yourself. Not that man. Do you understand that?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: But you do remember how you got back to the car don’t you?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Alright, I am going to count to ten back to one and you will go deeper asleep, breathe deeper now and you will be more relaxed. You remember how you got back to the car. It will be more like a dream and it will be safe. 10- 9- 8- 7- going deeper, 6- 5- 4- 3- 2- 1. The man in white cannot hurt you anymore. He has no power over you. Do you realize that? I want you to now speak up and tell me how you got (from) the white room to your car.

Cindy: They walked over to the end of the ship that I couldn’t look at.

Hypnotist: The one they wouldn’t let you look at?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: OK.

Cindy: And I just sat up on the table and the whole room lit up with yellow and I just went down along the yellow light.

Hypnotist: Through the air?

Cindy: Yes. And then when we got to the car I just switched places with somebody else that was sitting. It looked like me. I just switched places with them.

Hypnotist: Was the car moving?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: It was moving.

Cindy: But Kathy was still....

Hypnotist: Kathy was still somebody else?

Cindy: Yes.

End of Tape and First Session

Cindy’s second session (January 3, 1979)

Hypnotist: Counting Cindy down. When I give you the signal you will go deeper than you have ever been before. Now Cindy when we talked before in this relaxed trance state we have been observing things more clearly. We talked about your sighting and your participation in the incident. You recall that?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Recall that very clearly. We talked at one point about when you were... when you saw the van, remember the van?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: How far from the gravel pit was it, was it at the gravel pit or nearby the gravel pit?

Cindy: It wasn’t at the gravel pit. It was further away.

Hypnotist: Did you pass the gravel pit first and then come to the van?

Cindy: We first passed the gravel pit and after we were completely out of there.

Hypnotist: Had you already passed over the bridges at that time too when you saw the van?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: When you saw the van, that was after you had already been up to the UFO?

Cindy: That was afterwards.

Hypnotist: OK. At the time that you looked at that van did you still remember that you had been on a UFO?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: They had caused you to forget that, huh?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: OK. Do you remember what they did to cause you to forget?

Cindy: They told me to.

Hypnotist: They simply told you to forget and that was enough?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: What language did they use when they told you that?

Cindy: There wasn’t...it wasn’t my language. It was theirs, but I understood it so...and it just came out like mine. They didn’t talk so it just...I don’t know.

Hypnotist: It was hard for you to understand that?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: It was difficult for you to understand that but you still knew you were communicating. Did you say anything to them?

Cindy: Not a lot.

Hypnotist: When you did say something did they understand it?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Did they seem to respond to what you were saying? In any way...

Cindy: Sometimes they just turned away and not listen and then sometimes they would answer. Most of the time they just wouldn’t listen to me.

Hypnotist: Where were you on the occasion when they actually listened to you and answered? Were you in the white room or where were you?

Cindy: I was in the white room.

Hypnotist: What did yo say to them and what did they respond to?

Cindy: I just asked them if they were going to let me go back home and they said yes, if I just didn’t give them a bad time.

Hypnotist: They would let you go back home if you didn’t give them a bad time. Is that the way they phrased it?

Cindy: If I just laid there and didn’t do anything.

Hypnotist: So they did answer that question when they said yes they were going to let you go back.

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: You once told me that the last time we had a session that you were able to see some kind of writing but you couldn’t quite make out what it was.

Cindy: I was too far away.

Hypnotist: Where was this writing?

Cindy: It was in a couple of different places. One was in the outer room and that was over the controls. Couldn’t see that and then I saw some in the white room too.

Hypnotist: In the outer room where the controls were, was this symbols or some sort of writing on the control panel itself?

Cindy: It was just marks, just squared off lines. Triangle shaped letters that go out in different places and have different things inside of them, but I couldn’t really tell what.

Hypnotist: You are getting a clearer picture of it now aren’t you?

Cindy: A little bit. They had colors in them.

Hypnotist: What kind of colors?

Cindy: Just shiny things, like I guess solar red.

Hypnotist: Solar red? Uh huh. And these are the letters you are talking about or the figures, the shapes, is that what you are talking about?

Cindy: They have like...it was just a real shiny silver red blotchy thing inside of it, kind of a triangle but going out in a few places.

Hypnotist: Alright, in a few moments you will recall this later so that you can draw it for me. Can you do that?

Cindy: I will try.

Hypnotist: And you will write it down as you saw it then, in a few moments. OK. Have you ever been in contact with these people in any way after you were beamed down from the UFO or ship?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: And how did they contact you?

Cindy: They just appeared.

Hypnotist: Can you tell me how that occurred and the first instance and how long afterward?

It is alright, you are perfectly safe now. (Cindy getting agitated)

Cindy: It was a week after we’d seen it. I was home. I was trying to tell my mom and my dad what was happening and they just wouldn’t listen and I kept trying to remember what happen because we knew something was wrong. We didn’t use any gas going home. I tried to tell them all these weird things but they wouldn’t listen. He kept saying he found it hard to believe and he asked me if Kathy had smoked anything before we left and she didn’t cause I am with her all day and I didn’t see her take anything that day. Then I went down to my room because I was really mad because I didn’t want to talk about it. I wanted...I didn’t want them to think I was making anything up so I locked the door behind me and I just sat down on my bed and then somebody said lay down. I just kind of fell back. I look up and then I see somebody standing there.

Hypnotist: What did it look like? What did that someone look like?

Cindy: Like the people in the ship, all white. (Agitated again)

Hypnotist: It is alright, you are safe, go ahead.

Cindy: As soon as I saw him I just started getting cold and I...I tried to yell upstairs and I would yell but nothing came out. He just kept looking at me and...and...he said you told and you weren’t supposed to and I said I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to. He aid yes, you did. And then all I remembered was something more had gone on in the car but I didn’t remember him at the time and...but then I remember who he was. And then I just told him that I didn’t remember any of this. I didn’t remember anybody telling me I wasn’t supposed to because I didn’t remember anybody but he said that didn’t make any difference because I knew that I wasn’t supposed to tell but I wasn’t sure that I wasn’t. I kept thinking about it and every time I thought about it I kinda thought that I shouldn’t tell but I really didn’t remember. He told me don’t talk about it anymore, just remember that you are not supposed to every time you think about it. And then I was coming out my door and I couldn’t get my door open. He just kept saying don’t tell because he would do something to me. He wouldn’t tell me and then he was just gone.

Hypnotist: Could you tell how he left?

Cindy: He was just gone. Disappeared. I don’t know.

Hypnotist: Did you ask him why that you weren’t supposed to tell?

Cindy: No. He didn’t tell me anything. He wouldn’t tell me what he would do but then I didn’t remember him anymore.

Hypnotist: Then you didn’t remember him after that?

Cindy: I just remember him now. (Heavy, agitated breathing)

Hypnotist: That is alight. It is OK. You are safe now. You are perfectly safe. Then when was the next time he appeared to you again or the creatures or people again?

Cindy: Yes.

Hypnotist: Alright. Tell me about that.

Cindy: It was after...long time and I just, I didn’t, I didn’t really want to talk about it anymore at all and I tried not to but they kept asking me questions about it and...

Hypnotist: When did this take place...where did it take place?

Cindy: In my room again.

Hypnotist: Was there more than one this time?

Cindy: It was...no..

Hypnotist: Just the one man?

Cindy: After my mom kept asking me questions about it upstairs and I didn’t want to talk about it. Every time she brought it up I would run downstairs to my room and lock the door and just put on my headphones so she could just lave me alone because I didn’t want to talk about it. I just...I didn’t know why but I just knew that I shouldn’t talk about it and it was every time that it was brought up it was just like when he was there before I would get cold and I didn’t know why and I would just start shaking and I just didn’t want to talk about it, but I answered my mom on some stuff and then I started talking about it for awhile and I started getting cold and I ran down to my room and I just...I was just reading something and then I had some kin of weird flashback. I saw some scary green guy sticking his arm through the window and I don’t know why I thought about it because I never remembered it before. I just kept thinking no, this wasn’t anything. I just thought that I was just making it up or something but then I wasn’t trying to it was just like a movie that kept coming back and forth. I kept thinking no but finally I thought OK, it happened and then it went away. I ran upstairs and I told my dad what happened and then he called up...this past year he used to work in the Marines....I guess he was a Marine Chaplain...he used to (be) a reverend or whatever at our church when we lived in Ballard. And he talked to us and he just told us not to...just not to worry about it and all of this other stuff that it really wasn’t anything and then he had us over to tell him what happened. And so we did and he just said that it wasn’t anything to worry about and forget about it and it would just all go away. So I went home that night and I didn’t want to go down to my room because I was scared. He told that it was the devil and all this other stuff and then I just...I didn’t think that was what it was and...mom kept asking me about it and I didn’t want to talk about it again. And then that night I walked down to my room or something...and all of a sudden it was there again. Then he was really mad cause I wasn’t supposed to tell and I told him I tried not to. He said that was my own fault. He just kept looking at me and told me he warned me enough and then he....he just told me that he could make things worse if I kept going on and he said it was going to be bad enough now. I kept asking him why, why did it make any difference and he just said that wasn’t for me to worry about and then...well it is something for me to worry about if he was going to do something to me and then...he...I didn’t know what was going on for a couple of hours because I woke up in my room the next morning and he put me to sleep or something. And I started getting stomach aches a lot.

Hypnotist: After he put you to sleep you mean?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: You don’t remember what he did in those days? During that time?

Cindy: No, I just kept on getting stomach aches.

Hypnotist: Do you think it was because of something that he did?

Cindy: I don’t know.

Hypnotist: Well we don’t know. But how about now can you recall now what it was he did during that time that he made you forget?

Cindy: No.

Hypnotist: Are you sure that you can’t recall any of that? Alright, what else has he told you that you haven’t told me?

Cindy: (Very agitated, heavy breathing) He said that he would be around a lot and I asked him why I couldn’t ever remember him. He just said because I wasn’t supposed to. He told me that we would be seeing a lot of his people and other ones that weren’t his people now because they were going to come around a lot.

Hypnotist: Around to see you or just around to see everybody?

Cindy: See everybody. They said that they were always going to bother people because they had already gotten a lot of information now but he said that he kept coming around to see me because I was reacting bad to it.

Hypnotist: Because you were reacting bad about it? Or he was reacting bad to it?

Cindy: He was reacting bad, I guess, about it. I don’t know what I did because I had to answer questions if somebody asked me. He said that I shouldn’t be reacting so bad about it. He said that other people weren’t acting bad and so he just kept coming back anytime I talked about it. I couldn’t do anything about it as everyone kept asking me questions but then he stopped after I told him that I couldn’t tell anybody anything anyways because I didn’t know what happened and so it wouldn’t make any difference because nobody believed me anyways and so...and so he just left me alone.

Hypnotist: When was the last time that he came to see you?

Cindy: The last time that he came to see me was when...right before I went to the hospital the first time.

Hypnotist: Right before you went into the hospital the first time?

Cindy: Yeah.

Hypnotist: Was that the time he made you forget for awhile?

Cindy: Yes, he made me forget everything.

Hypnotist: Did you have a stomach ache then?

Cindy: But it wasn’t very bad. It was bad before he went to see me. He said that he would make it not so bad. Forget about it. I said that is fine I would. And so I went into the doctor and I was feeling fine. I didn’t know what he was making a big deal about. He said that I wasn’t all that good.

Hypnotist: Was that the doctor?

Cindy: Yeah. I couldn’t understand it because I didn’t feel all that bad.

Hypnotist: What did the doctor say was the matter with you?

Cindy: He didn’t really tell me anything. It has always been like that.

Hypnotist: So how long has it been since he has been to see you?

Cindy: A couple of years now.

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