Interview with Richard Veilleux by Brent Raynes

An Interview With Richard Veilleux

by Brent Raynes

Richard Veilleux and his brother Fred are well-known in parapsychology for their pioneering work in psychic photography. The psychic work that they and other family members have done over the years since 1965 has been seriously studied and written about by noted psychic researchers and authors like Susy Smith, Walter Uphoff, and Dr. Jule Eisenbud. Richard Veilleux seldom submits to an interview, so we feel especially honored by his participation in this one.

Editor: Beginning back in January 1972, when I was still 19, I was taking up an interest in psychic phenomena, when I visited you at your home, then in Waterville, Maine. At the time, all I had to go on about yourself, your family, and your work was a newspaper article that had appeared in the Maine Sunday Telegram back on June 28, 1970. That article, as you were to explain to me during that first visit, was inaccurate in many areas. Three months later, during another visit, you provided me with a xerox of an article that had appeared in a publication entitled Spiritual Frontiers (Vol. III, No. 2, Spring 1971). That article was written by a well-known paranormal researcher named Walter Uphoff who described visiting you, your brother Fred, and your father Joseph in Maine, back in May 1969, during which time apparent psychic images appeared on several Polaroid pictures which were taken in his presence. In fact, the pictures were taken of Mr. Uphoff! In one picture the image is clearly someone else. In a couple of prints there was a “bright white cloud” looking image in the area of his head. In another print Uphoff’s entire body was obscured by this “cloud.” Soon after this visit Uphoff went to Philadelphia, where he met with noted medium Arthur Ford. Out of the blue, Ford began talking to Uphoff about a “white cloud”over Uphoff’s head, and mentioned a name. As it turned out, this reading and your photographs, taken by both you and Fred, proved very evidential to Uphoff it seems that contact with a Russian born man named George Gamow had occurred in that instance.

Has your work with psychic photography pretty well given you proof that what you’re getting is connected with spirits of deceased human personalities who have passed on to the “other side”?

Richard Veilleux: The Uphoff-Ford-Gamow-Veilleux connection in May 1969 [1], certainly suggested ‘Gamow’attempted to impress his/an image on Polaroid film. The Ford reading supported ‘survival,’ and the resolve of one entity to undergo great lengths in proving he had survived bodily death. Unfortunately, despite Gamow’s intent, we never later captured his facial image. Although, the “connection” in itself, went a great deal further in suggesting “Gamow” had survived than his facial image, which would undoubtedly have been viewed as a thoughtographic image.

Our photography has often lent itself towards survival of bodily death, but there have been so many incidents through the years that survival would, at any rate, have been all but proven through personal experiences. Psychic photography, nonetheless, has not only contributed, but also personally proven that the dead can, under certain conditions, return and be photographed.

Editor: As I recall, your work began back in 1965, using automatic writing. In 1967, you began to use Polaroid cameras. Would you care to describe how this came about? As I recall, all of you devoted a great deal of personal time and energy to this work. In my notes, I found where I had written down that you Richard had explained how Fred had often put in 12 hour days, six days a week, engaged in extensive personal experimentation and research. It seemed whenever I dropped in on you that you were often at the typewriter working on material relating to the experiments. I got the distinct impression that the family was pretty much consumed by this area of exploration.

Richard Veilleux: Automatic writing ­ Ouija ­ kicked off with Fred and his wife Dorothy, in December of 1965. Then, a family circle was later formed. In 1967, we were looking for additional proof that we were actually communicating with the dead. Moreover, we were curious what these spirits looked like. When our first picture was produced on August 1, 1967 [2]­ it was the classic Spirit Photography of the 19th Century, as produced by John Myers, whose book He Walks In Two Worlds sparked our interest and our first picture.

My father, Fred and I, all seemed to have taken on the long and laborious hours during those early years. As with other mediums or psychics who have had a hand in producing physical phenomenon, it became necessary to continuously live the phenomenon because the phenomenon lived within us. It was, by enlarge, an extremely demanding and challenging frontier­much was given, but much had to be given up.

Editor: The picture, I assume, was of a human image surrounded in a cloud-like aura, commonly referred to as ectoplasm?

RV: The “extras” have often been accompanied with a “surround,” often referred to as “ectoplasm,” “photoplasm,” or even “teleplasm.” This surround, we were told, serves much the same as a mediumistic cabinet, in which, the dead are said to materialize­and psychic/spirit photography is, of course, a form of materialization. The surround, in itself, fluctuates in shape­often engulfing the facial image(s), while at other times, resembling a “frame,” then, there are the instances when there were none. Curiously, the surround often shows characteristic features of the photographer [3].

Editor: Richard, those many years ago when I met you, as I recall author Susy Smith was working on a book abut the work that all of you had been doing. I believe I recall an article she wrote that did appear in Psychic magazine. Did that book ever get published?

RV: The book with Susy never really got off the ground. The subject was controversial, specialized, so none of her sources were prepared to take it on, rather, they wanted her to do something on healing. At any rate, the deal never really got back on tract. Susy however, did manage to include our work in several publications. [4]. At the moment, our experiences are being collected in hopes of publication. Perhaps, it will all come together this time around.

Editor: In looking over my notes, I have it that as a group, when one was trying to enter a mediumistic trance state, that sometimes everyone in the group would hear an unexplained high- pitched noise. Furthermore, my notes mention how you Richard tried and eventually succeeded it seemed at achieving an out-of-body experience, and it seems heard this same high-pitched noise?

RV: Trance, at the insistence of the entities, was infrequently attempted through the years. We were hopeful of producing other physical manifestations, e.g., materializations [5], levitation [6], finger prints [7] (through paraffin, bees wax) and the like, but decided to confine ourselves to photography, Ouija, electronic voice phenomenon[8]­although the usual PK effects tagged along as we were developing and producing within physical mediumship (although, channeling, sensitive or psychic seems more acceptable now). Curiously, a high pitch did accompany the trance attempts, as well as the out-of-body instances.

Editor: You also experimented with tape recording of spirits, and had some success at that too. Can you describe what happened?

RV: Although we had scanty sessions with EVP during the ‘60s, my father took it on in the 70's and 80's. Once retired, he was capable of spending the enormous amount of time necessary for, not only the recordings, but also the play backs. Susy Smith included a chapter on our EVP in her book, Voices Of The Dead (New American Library, 1977).

What it all boiled down to was this. My father Joseph would use what was referred to as the “microphone method,” run his Realistic tape-recorder, ask questions, then, allow several minutes for a response. Once the tape was replayed, a paranormal voice (male-female) was recorded, either responding to my father’s questions, or commenting on a passing train or plane­or simply asking for some ambiguous help. Through the years, thousands of voice fragments were collected claiming to be of the dead. However, there were few instances in which the living were recorded while they slept.

Editor: Are my notes right that approximately 90 percent of the anomalous pictures you gentlemen took was while facing the east? If so, what was that about?

RV: The “east” had more to do with the entities emerging through Ouija than with us. In most instances, they had us face the east when photographing. This, however, was not of concern whenever we photographed independent of the board. East may well have been symbolic of illumination, light, God, and what not. It is, however, interesting to note the dead are often buried with their feet pointing east for the resurrection.

Editor: In looking over some of your photographs, two that really impressed me was a (color?) picture from March 1970, taken during an eclipse, wherein you see two people crucified on crosses, with a massive stone building with large columns located nearby. It was quite clear. Another color print from April 1970, was taken indoors, and it showed a chariot and people! Can you tell us a little more about that, and after all of these years, has anyone figured anything out about what those pictures depict?

RV: The crucifixion was produced on March 7, 1970, but as with the “Chariot,” which was produced on April 3, 1970, they are both black and white Polaroid prints. The latter was instructed via Ouija, while the former was randomly taken during the March eclipse. Neither image has been identified, but we have always felt that they are thoughtographic “reproductions” of existing pictures, much the same as the Wondjina or Jeff Milton pictures [9]­but somehow scrambled, perhaps, reversed?

Editor: Curiously, one picture you had you did identify as Australian aboriginal rock art that had in fact appeared in Erich Von Daniken’s book, Gods From Outer Space. But the image was reversed, like it had been taken from a mirror. Can you give us any more input on that one?

RV: Unfortunately, there is no ready-made explanation as to why some of our images appeared in “reverse.” It may have been another deliberate feature to prove their paranormality, especially when they were not witnessed under controlled conditions. Still, the “ Wondjina” became particularly interesting to Jule Eisenbud, M.D., and Prof. Charles E. Lyle of Susquehanna University, who, incidentally, first spotted them in Von Daniken’s book, Gods From Outer Space. Whoever was at the helm (spirit or unconscious) when these pictures were produced, seems to have recognized that some special paranormal feature was necessary in order to lure the doubting Thomas into identifying them.

Editor: You have worked closely with some of the major researchers and writers in this field, like Dr. Jule Eisenbud, Susy Smith, and Walter Uphoff. Any fond or revealing memories you’d like to share about your experiences with them or any others in the field?

RV: The Veilleux family took an immediate liking to Eisenbud, as well as his charming wife, Molly. We, of course, had more time with Eisenbud than with Susy or Walter, but all were thought of as friends we enjoyed spending time with­but we would have enjoyed producing that “special picture” which would have clinched it for them. But, who knows but that we did, yet it remains unidentified!

Editor: My notes also mention how you had photographs of mysterious, unidentified symbols, perhaps some sort of language, and that you were trying to find out what they meant. Can you describe this and, of course, was anyone ever successful at interpreting any of it?

RV: The symbols you’re probably referring to are the “Wondjina” pictures which were originally thought to be bee-snake-like symbols. There are other imbedded “numbers, letters and symbols,” which are still being researched, and space may be devoted to them within the manuscript. These imbedded images are not, in themselves, unusual from a imagery (paranormal) standpoint, as they are evident in the collections of the 19th and 20th Centuries.

Editor: Do you continue to do this work today, the psychic photography, the tape recordings, and so forth?

RV: We are currently inactive with our photography, though, plan to resume some time this year. The electronic voice phenomenon (EVP) was my father’s niche, and we have no intentions of continuing in his footsteps.

Editor: Do either of you care to comment upon what you feel the future holds in this area of psychic exploration that you have devoted so much of your lives to?

RV: Personally, I’m not at all encouraged that psychic/spirit or thoughtography will receive the scientific attention it deserves­it’s much too controversial. I would have to agree with Jule Eisenbud, M.D., in his Parapsychology and the Unconscious (North Atlantic Books, 1983), pgs. 107-08:

“The result is that were William James alive and trying to peddle his remarkable Mrs. Piper among his colleagues today, it is doubtful that he would get much further than he did at the turn of the century. Gardner Murphy asked me if I saw any way out of the dilemma. I certainly had no ready answer for him, but said that on the whole I was pessimistic about the future prospects of psychical research. I was not partial to a “breakthrough” theory, no matter what kind of major data came along, since we could hardly hope to do better than having representatives like Crookes, Ledge, James, and others pushing data on the order of those supplied by Home, Palladino, and Piper.”

Editor: What are the pitfalls and obstacles to this area of experimentation and exploration?

RV: I haven’t kept abreast of the goings-on within psychic research (parapsychology) since we resigned ourselves to private research. I’m certain there is fascinating research being conducted by highly qualified scientists and there are capable psychics, sensitives or mediums out there. Whether psychical research achieves the results of its heyday is all but doubtful.

Personally, I would strongly recommend caution to those who venture within physical phenomenon, and they can best be served accompanied by others, a circle, family, or competent researchers.

______________________________________________________________________________________

The following bibliography, followed by notes and references related to this interview, were prepared courtesy of Richard Veilleux:

Veilleux Bibliography

Cotter, Patrick, National Examiner (July 9, 1985).

Cook, William, Rindge, Jeanne, Owen, A.R.G., New Horizons, Journal of the New Horizons Research Foundation, Transaction of the Toronto Society for Psychical Research (Vol. 1, Number 1, Summer 1972)

Coulon, Jacques, Perspective (December 3, 1977, Vol. 19, No. 49, Canada).

Eisenbud, Jule, Fate Magazine (November-December 1975.

Eisenbud, Jule, Parapsychology And The Unconscious (North Atlantic Books, 1983).

Kimball, Michael, Yankee Magazine (November 1984).

Langley, Lynne, Maine Times (August 16, 1974).

Owen, A.R.G., Psychic Mysteries Of The North (Harper & Row, Publishers 1975).

Permutt, Cyril, Beyond The Spectrum (Patrick Stephens, Cambridge 1983).

Rickard, Robert, Kelly, Richard, Photographs Of The Unknown (Nook Club Associates, New English Library ltd. 1980).

Rickard, Robert, Mitchell, John, Phenomena, A Book Of Wonders (Thames & Hudson ltd. 1977).

Smith, Susy, Voices Of The Dead: (New American Library 1977).

Psychic Magazine: (October 1974).

Sokaren Magazine: (stockholm 1975).

Read Magazine: (Xerox Corp. Publishing, Vol. XXIV, No. 4, October 18, 1974).

Uphoff, Walter, Spiritual Frontiers (Quarterly Journal Of Spiritual Frontiers Fellowship, Inc., Vol. III, Spring 1971, No. 2).

Mind Over Matter (New Frontiers Center, Colin Smythe Ltd. 1980).

New Psychic Frontiers (Colin Smythe Ltd, 1975).  

Probe The Unknown Magazine (July 1975).

Documentaries

The Amazing World of Psychic Phenomena: (Guenette-Asselin Productions, Inc. 1976).

In Search Of, Ghost of Photography Episode (Alan Landsburg Productions 1981).

PSI: au-dela De L’Occultisme (Explo-Mundo, Societe Des Grands Exploratteurs Du Monte Ltd. 1979).

Notes and references from the interview:

1. Spiritual Frontiers, Quarterly Journal of Spiritual Frontiers Fellowship, Inc., Volume III, Spring 1971, Number 2­A Unique Experience with Arthur Ford by Walter Uphoff. New Psychic Frontiers by Walter and Mary Jo Uphoff (Colin Smythe Ltd. 1977. FATE Magazine (November 1975) The Merveilleux Veilleux, Their Psychic Photography. Probe The Unknown Magazine (July 1975) Capturing The Unknown On Film by Walter Uphoff.

2. Psychic Magazine (October 1974), Psychic Photography in Maine by Susy Smith.

3. Mumler, Hudson, Duguid, Boursnell, Wyllie, Martin, Deanne, Myers, Serios, Veilleux ETC.

4. Psychic Magazine (October 1974), Sokaren Magazine (1975), Voices Of The Dead (New American Library 1975).

5. The Phenomena of Materialization by Baron von Schrenck Notzing (Kegan Paul, Trench, Truber & Co. Ltd. 1920). The American Seances with Eusapia Palladino, by Hereward Carrington (Garrett Publication 1954).

6. Experiments In Psychics by F.W. Warrick (E.P. Dutton 1939).

7. Proceedings A.S.P.R. (1926-27) Vol. 1-2, The Margery Mediumship by J. Malcolm Bird.

8. Breakthrough by Konstantin Raudive (Taplinger Pub. Co. 1971). Voices Of The Dead by Susy Smith.

9. FATE Magazine (November-December 1975) The Merveilleux Veilleux by Jule Eisenbud M.D.

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