Interview with Deborah Campbell Jeansonne on God and Christianity

by Brent Raynes

My wife and I have known Deborah and her late husband Marlon going back quite a few years, back to when Deborah and I both gave talks at New Age Seminars on Beech Creek, here in Wayne County, Tennessee, back in the 1980s, and sponsored by an organization called I.S.T.C. (International Society of Total Concept). The seminars never drew that big of a crowd, but we had a good number of thought- provoking discussions and bull sessions, and met a few interesting people who had traveled here from other states like California, Indiana, and Florida. Not long ago, Deborah wrote and had published a book detailing her life journey (which we reviewed), which contains many of her deep and personal thoughts on religious matters. The book is entitled Astronomical Visions: Wrapped in Gold; Beyond Christianity With Christ As A Guide (1st Books Library: www.1stbooks.com) It’s also available at www.amazon.com and www.wrappedingold.com

My wife and I ran into Deborah the other day at a local store and Deborah always talks straight and tells it exactly as she sees it, which to us is quite refreshing, and she got to talking about her book, her personal spiritual beliefs, and people’s critical reactions to her book, and it occurred to me right then and there what a delightful interview subject Deborah would make. So the very next day we sat down and did an interview here in our livingroom. And so here it is:

Editor: What was the motivating force behind you writing your book, Wrapped in Gold?

Deborah Campbell Jeansonne: Actually I wanted to write the book because I was raised a Christian and I think that all Christian people are bogged down with limits. Christianity limits you to be able to move on in God, in my opinion. All I had ever heard about was that my dad was going to hell because he didn’t have a perfect life, so to speak. Lets just say that he drank a lot and he didn’t raise his family, so I was worried about him, thinking about him going to hell. That was what I was taught all of my life.

So I wanted to find out from God, from Jesus, what the truth of the matter was, and when I hit about forty years of age I was like, “Well I had better hurry up and find out because I’m getting old and I’m probably going to die and then I’ll never know.” So I started reading and studying every book that I could get my hands on as far as different beliefs, eastern beliefs, Zen, and everything just opened up all over the world to me. But still I was a Christian, and they used to call me a Christian mystic. When I first heard that word I wasn’t too happy about it. It was like, “Excuse me! I’m a Christian! I don’t know about that mysticism part.” I didn’t really understand all of that. And that’s what they all called me, was a Christian mystic because I was bogged down in if you didn’t believe in Christ then you were kind of way out there and you was just way off base. But then I started liking being called a Christian mystic, and really throughout all of the things that I’ve asked Jesus about, and I only talk to Jesus. People say they have spirit guides here and spirit guides there. People ask, “Who is your spirit guide?” I don’t know. I’ve never figured out whose mine. I do know this. I come to know the things I know because of Christ and I was what people refer to as saved when I was like 7. I was aware of God since I was born, in my opinion, but coming to know Christ, as in the traditional Christian method, was like when I was 7. And he was the only one I could relate to who could tell me anything where I would really believe it. So I have a lot of dreams, and it was never drug induced. It just happened. I would just go inside of myself and ask questions, because I would hear things in church that I was just like, “Excuse me! That’s not happening!” And one thing in particular was about Judas. Everybody hated Judas. He was just the most horrible person in the whole world because he betrayed Jesus.

That always bothered me, even when I was really small, because in my opinion, even if he really did do those things­and I really don’t know if he did or didn’t at this point­ but if he really did do it, the Jesus that I had come to know would have loved him and understood him anyway. But every time you bring up the name Judas it brings up negative type thinking, and I think that is really sad so I kind of started praying to Judas one time which people really got flipped out on. Because I thought he’s kind of not busy, you know, nobody is praying to him, so he can probably do a lot of things for me. (Deborah laughs) Jesus might be a little too busy.

A lot of Christian people who listen to me talk bring up the word blaspheme all of the time, and I’m like “Hello! What is like waking up and dreading the day. Is that not the same thing?” I have a really hard time dealing with the typical way of thinking anymore.

Another thing is that I just like to enjoy God. People used to say, “You can’t question God,” and I used to wonder why not. Why would he put these thoughts in my mind to make me question Him if he didn’t want me to ask him any questions? So I just didn’t accept all of that stuff.

I worried about a lot of things. I worried myself to death about Elvis Presley. I didn’t know the man and never met the man, but a lot of evangelists, when he supposedly died, were really like “If he had only given his whole life to Christ” and “If he had only run out here and done Gospel songs constantly.” And I was like “Excuse me! Who are you to sit in judgement on this man? You don’t have a clue as to what he gave to people, whose salaries he paid, or what he gave up to have that kind of life.” It’s like Christians, and I don’t mean this in an ugly way because I am a Christian, but there’s some Christians who I just don’t really want to be associated with. It seems like there’s a lot of judgement in Christianity.

Editor: The Bible says in one place, “Judge not they ye be not judged.”

Deborah: If most people would listen to that it would be nice.

Editor: But they skip over that one.

Deborah: Yeah, they skip over that. And then somehow within themselves understand they’re doing what they feel their Jesus or their God is showing them to do at that particular time. What scares me about that, and I kind of used to be one of these people, is that if people like this ever got into total control and authority, we’d be in deep trouble. I mean, I wasn’t as fanatical as some people are. I just wanted to know the truth. I just wanted to know that God could love everybody. And to me I think everybody, even people of different beliefs and different deities we all have this thing of this is what we believe and it is the best way, and I think it is in that that we limit God, because God is God. I don’t know if you want to call it God, or nature, or whatever. There’s a force out there that is much greater than whatever we ever thought about being and whatever that force is it is so great that how can somebody limit him to say, “He doesn’t love that person because he’s a murderer.” Now I understand that murder is not a good thing, and I’m not defending that at all, but what I am saying is that I’ve been mistreated in my lifetime in front of people, by a superior boss or whatever you want to call him, in such a way that you felt like they just killed you. Now I think people should pay more attention to how they treat people because to me that’s just as bad almost, and sometimes it may (I don’t know if it could be worse), but sometimes I think that it really has an effect on people’s spirits that they never recover from.

Editor: I know that in reading the Bible myself years ago I tried to talk to people about how was it that I could be saved and I was up in Heaven, all of my tears would be wiped away and everything would be joyous, but what happens when someone gives me the news that say my brother or my daughter just came through and they’re on their way down.

Deborah: That’s a horrible thing.

Editor: If I was still no tears and all just joy and strumming on my harp, that would smack of brainwashing. And then one day somebody told me, quite bluntly, and this kind of took me off guard, that Christianity actually has, by definition, a lot in common with being a cult. You believe in something without question. You just go on with whatever you’re told. What you’re given to read. By definition that is a cult.

Deborah: Yes, it really is. But the thing of it with me is that I went from church to church when I was growing up. My mom was I guess you could say somewhat fanatical, but she was born in a time when you were taught hell and damnation, and she was trying to come beyond that even that many years ago. So she went from one church to another church all of the time. I went to church every time the church doors open.

Now I’m not saying that’s bad. Wherever people find comfort and what they need I think that’s a good thing. I was different when I went to church too because somebody would ask, “What did you do last night?” I would be like, “Do you really want to know?” I would think it was fine to do something on Saturday night and go to church on Sunday, whereas typical Christian people didn’t feel that way because you had this box that you sit in and they’d say, “You know, when you go out dancing and stuff you’re leaving Jesus outside. I was like “Excuse me! I don’t think so! Because even with your way of thinking I need him worse in there then I ever need him when I’m not in there.” I didn’t think Jesus really cared whether I went dancing or not, and I still don’t.

So I grew up with a friendship with Jesus and I think that’s where a lot of people get really messed up is that they put him way up there or way over there, and they don’t look inside to know that he’s right here teaching you within your own heart and soul what it is that you need to know.

It’s a complicated thing.

Editor: So you pray and meditate.

Deborah: You know, I read books and books, I read cards, I read palms. I do a lot of things that Christians do not think is really all that great. As far as meditation, I think it’s good to meditate, but my mind just goes ninety to nothing so when I’m riding around I think meditation for me is just like being quiet and calm and in my heart I’m constantly feeling God.

It’s not prayer like what many people consider prayer. I just talk to him. If you go back to the Bible He’s my friend. He’s my defender. He’s my savior. He’s everything.

So yes, Jesus is everything to me, but now that he has shown me the things that he has shown me, that I wrote about in the book, I know I don’t have to worry about anybody going to hell. I don’t have to worry about anybody being lost because ... we can be more aware but nobody is lost.

God, I think, knows whether I’m going to do something today or not, and so some things come into my mind and maybe through talking with him throughout the day he helps me to determine whether I should go forward with that or not. I think a lot of people don’t talk to God the way I talk to God. Which my opinion is that he’s got so many people, like I was telling you, who sit on the front row of church doing the same thing all of the time that I’m probably a relief for him.

You know that lady who wrote The Valley of the Dolls? I watched a movie about her and you talk about a colorful woman. You’ve got to be really open minded to watch this woman’s life story, but I enjoyed it because to me, like she had this tree that she would go out and talk to God through this opening in this tree, and she used some real colorful language. I was like, “I don’t know if I would talk to God in those terms. I just don’t know.” But I kept listening and watching and I really got amused by it because I thought, “You know, that’s another colorful personality and God gave her everything she asked for, to be quite honest.” And she asked for lots of miracles because she had cancer and was going to die before all of this stuff happened, and she would go out there and tell him, “You know what? I don’t think you’ve been fair with me,” and using words that I wouldn’t use.

I enjoyed that story and if I could buy that movie someplace I’d have it just for the fun of it. Because I thought, “You know, that’s kind of the way I am about it.” I’m not quite that colorful but that was her relationship with God and he accepted her in that way, just like he accepts me with mine, and he accepts everybody else with theirs, at their level.

A lot of people would say, “Man, I’m not watching that because it’s just horrible for her to use that kind of language talking directly to God,” and at first I thought the same thing, but I kept watching because I said, “You know, she’s so colorful and she’s so herself,” and I thought, “You know, God’s probably really getting a kick out of her because she’s just kind of being her,” and that’s kind of the way I see that he looks at me. He’s got enough people going to church sitting on a pew. He doesn’t need another one. I kind of start off the day asking him all kinds of weird questions, so he’s got his hands full. He’s probably got me assigned to somebody. Probably Judas! (Laughs)

Editor: You get a lot of your insights through dreams.

Deborah: Yeah. But the only person that I’ve ever seen in a dream....is Jesus. And it was very plain. I’m not saying that I see it everyday, and I also see Jesus, and people will die about this, but I also saw Jesus in a dream one time he showed me a lot of this about just letting go, all of this baggage that you’re taught about hell and damnation, judgement and trying to be perfect, and all of this stuff. I had a dream where Jesus was in my den and he was looking out the window, and I was really kind of shocked that he was there, and I looked at him and I said “What are you doing here?” and he opened the door and he looked at me and he said, “Now it’s time for you to go out and find your own salvation.” And I thought, “That was a weird thing to say. You’re my savior.” And he was like, “No, no, not really. But I’ll be here when you need me. But with all of the information you’ve got now you just kind of need to be on your own right now,”

So I sort of was after that. I don’t feel bad about it. The things that Jesus showed me he showed me and my book is really not a book about this is what you need to believe, because that’s not what I think. It’s like to give you different things to think about so that maybe you can just pick up one little sentence and then go off in your own relationship with your God, or Jesus, or whoever you believe in. It could relate to Buddhists. It could relate to anybody. But it’s Christianity because I was raised in Christianity which really hurt me a lot because as you grow up in churches all of the time there’s a lot of heartache that goes on in churches, in the little clicks that they have. I never fit in, and all of that, and so you have all of that to figure out. So that’s why I wrote “Beyond Christianity With Christ As A Guide” because I was raised a Christian....I was trying to bring people beyond the typical beliefs and teachings of the Bible.

Just like I got to see the movie, The Last Temptation of Christ, and I was so excited about this movie, and I just knew that it would be a box office hit. Well excuse me, it wasn’t, and I thought that’s so sad. Christians can go out here and they can protest The Last Temptation of Christ, which I think any movie about Christ showing love, the love of Christ, is a good movie. You may not agree with every aspect of it, but it’s a good movie.

They’ll go out and protest this, but yet I didn’t see anybody protesting Omen I, Omen II. It’s like, “Oh well, that’s just these heathens out here doing that. No need for us to protest that.”

For me the movie was just breathtaking because it showed me a whole new light. I did think that probably the book ends probably where the angel is talking up to Jesus, reciting a beautiful poem. To me that’s where it should have ended. I think it was taken further just trying to bring some Christians further along, but then he got no recognition for his movie, and I think someday he will.

My book has caused so much controversy that nobody really likes it at all because they say that I’m against the church. But I’m not against the church. And they say that I’m against Christ with my book. That book is more about loving Christ than it could ever be against Christ. I don’t understand their thinking behind that. The Last Temptation showed me that really God loves everybody.

Editor: The protesting of the Last Temptation was because it portrayed him more as a man. In the movie did he die on the cross?

Deborah: In the end. But the thing of it was, in the middle of it, he went on the cross and an angel came down who they later made appear as Satan. But an angel come and it was a beautiful poem talking about God loves you, why did you have to do this. It was just breathtaking to me. I thought you know what, that’s exactly right. I don’t know how Jesus died, I don’t know if he died on a cross or he didn’t. I know he was crucified. That’s a horrible, horrible thing, but I hope that he didn’t die that way. I really do. Because Jesus dying on the cross that really doesn’t matter to me at all. What matters to me is how he lived his life. What matters to me now is that he can go from that world to this world just like that, and change people’s lives, and he still does it today. I think Buddha probably does it for Buddhists. I couldn’t ask Buddha to do anything for me because Buddha to me is like “Oh well,” but like Jesus, that’s a different story. It’s how you’re raised.

So I come to the conclusion that I was raised that nobody would go to heaven except somebody who had accepted Christ, as their Savior, which is really, after you think about it logically is crazy, to even think that. So I was really happy and relieved, I was at peace, when I found out that I didn’t have to worry about other people. That God needs to worry about that. So when I got through with the book I kind of relaxed, and I’m still relaxed. I’m not worried about it anymore. If you all want to worry about it worry about it. I just want to be happy and live my life, and I’m very thankful that Jesus showed me all of the things that he has shown me, because if I never do anything else in my life period, just be a grandmother and sit home and knit or whatever, a lot of people won’t ever have those revelations. They may or may not have their own and branch out. Whatever. I feel very blessed that he showed me the things that he did because I could have been one of these people who lived their life in dread of “If I don’t go to church Sunday I’m probably going to go to hell.” I’ve got a friend of mine who goes to church every Sunday. She still thinks she’s going to hell. You cannot convince her that she’s not going to hell. It doesn’t matter that she accepted Christ. She’s still going to live right, so she’s going to hell.

Editor: A life filled with anxiety.

Deborah: Yeah, and it’s sad. And that’s the way we raised people. To me, it seems like it’s a lot of fear and you control people by making them afraid, and it’s good for some people because this fear in some people will keep them from going down a lot of roads, or will help give them the strength to overcome certain habits because they don’t want to disappoint God. Which is a good thing for some people, and I think that’s fine. I just don’t feel that way anymore. I know that God loves me whether I’m smoking a cigarette or not. Now if you go back to the Bible it says, “The wages of sin is death.” Well, excuse me. I’m probably going to kill myself with these things and I probably won’t have the best quality of life but that doesn’t keep me from loving him. I’m not sure if he’s going to give me the strength to quit or not quit, I’m not sure what he’s going to do. I keep talking to him about it and he’s like, “Debra, you whine all of the time. Why don’t you shush?” (We laugh) “Well, you’re the one who gave me this mouth so excuse me,” (Deborah says she replied)

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