An Interview with Susan Hill

by Brent Raynes

Read why this Oklahoma MUFON state director feels UFOs, psychic phenomena and sychronicity are “all connected,” and with Valentine’s Day coming up you might want to know what the Alien “Love Bite” phenomenon may really be about.

Editor: Please share a little about yourself, your interests and occupations, and how you became involved in UFO studies.

Susan Hill: I’m an ordinary 49 year old female, with only a high school education, married for 28 years to a wonderful husband who has been extremely supportive and understanding in my quest for answers to all things ufological and paranormal, have two grown married children and two grandchildren. I was raised in a Protestant, upper middle class family and lived a very normal life. Currently, I’m the state director for Oklahoma MUFON, have been involved in MUFON for about ten years and initially joined because of my curiosity about UFOs. Prior to joining MUFON I had worked as an assistant administrative supervisor over three departments in a large law firm in downtown Oklahoma City and worked there for a little over seven years. I had a good paying job and liked the work that I did. Between the increasing job stress, a nagging feeling that there had to be more to life and constantly questioning odd experiences happening throughout my life, I quit my job to begin my search for some much needed answers. Thankfully, my husband makes a good living to support us and left the decision up to me whether I wanted to return to the work force. Although I haven’t returned to the mainstream workforce, I research full-time from my home. Ufology and the paranormal are areas that I’m very serious and passionate about.

Editor: Please describe some of your most interesting and perhaps instructive investigations.

Susan Hill: A couple of months ago, I began writing an article on our Oklahoma MUFON website (http://www.okmufon.com/)dealing with my two year investigation, which remains on-going, between a man and woman who both may be experiencing what is referred to as a ‘love bite.’ Not only has it changed their lives, but mine as well.

Editor: Has your field work allowed you to arrive at any significant conclusions about these phenomena?

Susan Hill: Yes. Although there is so much knowledge that we still need to learn and understand about ufology and the paranormal, I’ve believed for a number of years and now am quite certain that it’s ‘all connected,’ although it all may seem quite different from each other.

Editor: Do you foresee any breakthroughs or revealing disclosures in the near future with regard to the evolving UFO enigma?

Susan Hill: My personal feeling on this is that small breakthroughs have been and are currently happening all of the time. Some people notice and most don’t Sometimes it just depends on how

close one pays attention, how broad their thinking is, and/or can they actually think and make decisions for themselves. We humans, I feel, are and have been slowly conditioned (desensitized) not only by ET, but by our government as well. But we have been conditioned to the ‘idea’ of ET...not that ET really exists. In other words, we all (most of us) have heard the terms “ET”, UFO, alien, etc. I don’t believe that our government will make a formal announcement anytime soon to the public that ET actually exists and/or is flying in our air space. The reason I think this is because unfortunately our government in this country or any other country on planet Earth does not have control of the situation. We are no match for ET’s technology. If the public knows this and feels their government can’t protect them, panic will begin.

You know, I’ve been in MUFON for about ten years now, and just in this time I have seen a change in MUFON itself. It’s coming around to what I always thought. That it’s all connected. MUFON is more open minded than it used to be. Now I’m not speaking for MUFON International, but my personal feeling is that there is a connection with all things unexplained. It seems to be that way in my life. I do think that things like the spirituality, psychic events, and ufology that there is definitely a connection with all of that. We haven’t figured it out yet.

Editor: You stated that you were “constantly questioning odd experiences and happening throughout your life.” Could you share with us something of the nature of these experiences that have ultimately brought you into this area of research and investigation?

Susan Hill: I’ll start out by explaining that I have had a lot of unusual occurrences in my life. Not that they happen repeatedly, the same thing over and over again. I’ve talked to a lot of people trying to find out if anyone else has experienced so many different kinds of paranormal phenomena like I have, and I haven’t really come across anyone. I’m sure that there is, but I kind of equate it to what I’ve read about the ranch in Utah that Robert Bigelow bought. Creatures supposedly walked out of a portal. It was scaring this family to death and they sold it to Bigelow, but they continued to live on the property, and ultimately all types of equipment was set up in the area of this ranch, trying to capture anything electronically. All of these weird things would never seem to duplicate, and that always caught my attention because that seems like what I’ve experienced in my life. I’ll give you an example.

I have experienced precognition. I have experienced telepathy. I have experienced daytime visions that came true. I’ve had dreams of UFOs. I’ve woken up in the morning with the stereotypical marks on my body, what a lot of abductees say that they’ve had, and I’m not saying that I am an abductee or experiencer, or however you want to call it. I don’t really know. There are a lot of red flags. I am suspicious of it, but I just don’t know. I have never undergone any type of hypnotic regression to try and find this out either.

I’ve experienced clairaudiance also, which is very strange. I had an episode. I don’t know what this means. That’s what my research is. Trying to find out if all of these things that I have experienced are leading up to something. It’s almost like I am being shown that all of these things do exist, I’m being given a taste of it, so to speak, to get my attention, but I don’t know who or what. What am I supposed to do? They’ve had my attention for the last ten years, but I still don’t know what I’m supposed to do with this information.

I’ll give you an example of a strange thing that happened. I don’t know if this has anything to do with anything psychic, ufological or what. I’ll just let you decide. When I was around 8 years old, living in Duncan, Oklahoma, I believe it was a summer afternoon and it looked like a terrible storm was brewing. The clouds were really ominous. I’m with a friend and we’re riding our bicycles and we stop at the top of the street, and I made a statement to my friend, “I have to go home and tell my mother about the storm.” I went home and told her, and my mother wasn’t really interested, and I couldn’t understand why, but I was very anxious or nervous about these clouds. Well, we did have a terrible storm that night and the next morning I woke up and I remember that I was itching all over. I do not remember seeing hive welts all over me, but my mother said that’s what I had, and I remember she put calamine lotion on me.

The only thing that I do remember as any kind of unusual mark on my body was what I used to call a scratch mark. Thinking upon it as an adult later on it really looked like a burn mark. I had a long, thin burn mark across my left cheek It lasted for about three days, and then disappeared. Well for years and years, I had not thought about that until I was around 27 years old. Mind you, I hadn’t thought about that incident for almost 20 years. One day, I was getting ready for work and went into the bathroom to put my make up on and I see a long, red burn mark on my left cheek, and it was at that time that that memory came back to me when I was a little bitty girl. I had seen that same mark before. And I could not, for the life of me, figure out how I got this mark across my cheek. There wasn’t a scab or anything. It just looked like a burn. But it was real long and thin. I had it about three days and it disappeared, and I never could figure out what caused that.

Skipping ahead in time I’m about 35 years old and getting ready for work in the morning. I go into the bathroom and there’s that same red burn mark across my left cheek, and that really gets my attention because I’m thinking “what is this?” “What is causing this?” This also disappeared in three days.

At that point, I was not involved in ufology. I’m almost 50 now. I got involved pretty much when I was around 39. When I was around 39 this is when I quit my job and decided I’ve got to figure out what’s going on. Now a lot of people would say that my mind is contaminated because I read so much. I’m an avid reader. I’ve read hundreds and hundreds of books, and thousands of articles. And the reason why I started doing this is because I was looking for validation as to some of the weird things that had happened to me.

Now about the red burn mark on my cheek I remember I came across a book called Searchers by Ron Felber. The book scared me to death because this woman had encountered the same thing about the long burn mark on her cheek.

I don’t personally think that I’ve become contaminated because I’ve read so many other people’s accounts. It all started when I was looking for answers. Since then I’ve read other accounts of people talking about these burn marks. I don’t know what they are.

I’ll give you an example. This was really quite upsetting to me. One time, I had been running errands in town and was driving down a particular road on my way home. Mind you, I’m wide awake, obviously. I’m driving my car. I don’t know why this happened but a picture, it was almost like a vision, of a man’s face, and he had dark brown hair, past his ears, and he had an absolute look of terror in his eyes. I didn’t see his body, but I knew that he was naked. All of a sudden this disappeared out of my mind, and I was thinking, “Boy, I must be tired. I must be losing it. Where did that come from?” I wasn’t thinking anything like that when it just popped in my mind. I got home in about ten minutes, brought my groceries in, and turned on the TV, and the local news was talking about a horrible thing that had been found across town. This is really a horrible story. In an apartment complex, that same day, the people saw a naked man throw a backpack into the apartment dumpster. They knew who the naked man was. He ran off. Of course, they wanted to know what did he throw in the dumpster, and they went and opened up the backpack and it was a human head. Obviously, they called the police. The people knew who the naked man was and the police went to his apartment. He didn’t answer. They went in. He was sitting in a bathtub of bloody water, and his headless partner was sprawled out I think on the kitchen table. They showed a picture of the dead man on TV and that was the picture that had come into my mind driving home only about 15 minutes earlier.

That’s just an example of two different strange things. I have a lot of odd stories like that.

Editor: How did you come to connect it with UFOs, or to become involved in UFO investigations?

Susan Hill: Well actually, what I think really sparked my interest I was probably around 15, came home from school one day and my mom was all excited and said, “You’ve got to read this book. I bought it yesterday and I stayed up all night reading it, and it was Chariots of the Gods. Erich von Daniken. I read it, and I was really interested. But when you’re a teenaged girl boys are a lot more interesting. So time goes ahead, and I’ll never forget this. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that there were four UFOs that I saw and my mother saw them in North Oklahoma City. In her driveway. I was leaving one night, I was in my car and she was standing there talking to me and it was about 11 o’clock at night and I remember that there were four lights, way, way way high up in the sky. They were darting around like fireflies and I told me mom, “Look at that,” and she turned around and she couldn’t see it, and I got out of the car and they were gone. I said, “I can’t believe they’re gone.” They were way way high. They could not have been floodlights, I know good and well it was not airplanes or jets. They were moving around too quick and around each other. This was in the northern part of the sky, and I turned around and looked in the southern part and there they were.

The few seconds it took me to get out of the car, they could not have traversed across that much sky, and my mother saw this then.

One time my husband and I, about eight years ago, we lived about seven miles north of Yukon, Oklahoma. We were sitting on our patio one night. It was north of our house. It was a huge, bright light. Whatever it was, it went up in a huge arc across the sky and then down, and my husband was in the Marine Corps for 11 years and worked on aircraft. He didn’t know what it was. And strange enough, I found out about two years after that that our state MUFON director at that time, I was telling him about this and he looked at me really funny, and he said, “About when did that happen?” I told him, and he said, “I know. I saw the same thing you did.” I said, “You’re kidding me.” I said, “How odd is that,” because he lives in another town and we both saw the same thing at the same time, and I guarantee you that he knows aircraft because he’s been an air traffic controller, he teaches at the FAA right now, so this man knows his aircraft, and he said he did not know what it was.

Editor: He’s a very credible observer.

Susan Hill: Absolutely. So I’ve had some unusual aerial sightings, but it has mainly been the personal things that have happened with me. I know that from what a lot of people have said that there seems to be a lot of poltergeist activity following abductions. Like I told you earlier, I know Leah Haley very well, and one time I think she was wondering why I just wouldn’t say that I was an abductee, an experiencer, and I said “I can’t.” She didn’t verbalize it, but I felt like she was wondering why I didn’t acknowledge it, and I just went ahead and said, “I can’t say that because I don’t know. All I know is that I’ve had these certain strange things happen.”

A lot of things happened in this particular house that we had lived in for nine years, outside of Yukon, Oklahoma. Only I and my younger son were in the house at the time. He was in high school. I was in my bedroom and he was in his bedroom. I heard a loud crash and I ran out in the hallway and I met my son and I said, “Did you drop something?” And he said, “Well I thought that you did.” And I said, “Well something fell.” We both walked into the livingroom, and there is a particular photograph that I had on the wall in our family room. This photograph is really unusual. My brother took it many, many years ago, and it is of an oil can floating in a pond. I know it sounds very boring, but if you look at the shadow in the water it looks like a classic UFO. It’s a very interesting photograph, and it was this photograph that was hanging on the wall. I looked at this thing and I couldn’t believe what I saw. It’s kind of hard to describe the hangers on the back of this frame, but they’re those metal, kind of pinched metal, and they fit in both top corners of the frame, and they hang independently, each of them on a nail in the top corners of the frame. This thing is hanging on one nail. Now I remember when I hung that frame up that I had a horrible time getting the nails aligned and getting each of these hangers in the back corner of the frame to hang over each nail, and I remember distinctly pulling straight down on that to make sure that it was secure. Brent, I’m not kidding you. It was hanging on one nail. The other nail was still in the wall. You couldn’t bang the wall to make that happen. And the other thing that’s strange is that these holders, they’re metal and when metal slides down a white wall it’s gonna leave that kind of silver mark. There were no marks. My son and I were just staring at this in disbelief. How the heck did this happen? I put it back up. I was perplexed, but I went on my merry way. But where it really gets strange is that the wall that it was hanging on is a common wall to my and my husband’s bedroom, and our dog, who we still have, he slept in our bedroom, in the corner where that common wall was on the other side to the family room. I kid you not, my dog would not go to his bed, would not sleep in that corner for an entire year after that happened. He did not want to come near that wall.

Editor: Sounds like he sensed something.

Susan Hill: Yeah. I do suspect that I’m an abductee. I just don’t know for sure. I have had multiple fingertip bruises on the inside of my thighs, throughout my life, for which there is no logical explanation. I’ve had a triangular pin point mark on me. Like I say, it’s what I call the stereotypical markings of an abductee, but I don’t have any remembrance. Some people might call me obsessed with this hobby of mine. My husband is very sweet. He just says that I’m very passionate about it.

Editor: There you go. Now you’ve gone into it full time now, haven’t you?

Susan Hill: Yeah, I really have. It’s so much of my life anymore. It’s pretty much who I am. We have our monthly MUFON meetings at my house each month. In fact, we’re having one this Sunday (interview was conducted 01/04/05). I met a new person over the phone a couple of weeks ago and he’s bringing a personal video that he and a friend (had taken) of a triangular craft when they were coming home from St. Louis. It’s about a year old. They had just gotten a camcorder. He said it’s real jerky because they were driving in the car.

There’s just so many sightings of these triangular craft in the last couple of years. In fact, an investigation that we went on which happened right before I went to the Eureka Springs conference last year. It happened in Kingfisher, Oklahoma, which is only about 30 miles from here. A couple of college girls who were coming home for Easter Break saw this dark looking craft, triangular shaped. It was hovering above the trees and they saw it from the highway, and we went out and looked at the area. I talked with the girls and they seemed extremely credible. There were a lot of sightings of triangular craft right at that time. In fact, it was Peter Davenport who got the initial report. He called John Schuessler, head of MUFON, because MUFON has the investigators, and John emailed me that night about 11:30. So from what Peter Davenport and John Schuessler told me this was the quickest any investigators had ever gotten to a scene. My husband and I got out there in about an hour. Actually the girls saw it about 7:30 but I got the email about 11:30 and we were there about 12:30.

My husband is not involved in this, but he went with me because I insisted on going out there that night and he didn’t want me to go by myself. We had some other investigators who went out the next day, during daylight hours, and we couldn’t find any evidence of anything. Unfortunately, the only thing that I can say is that these girls were very credible to me. Both of them never believed in UFOs. It scared them to death what they saw. They said that other people on the highway were stopping so not a whole lot of people hear about Oklahoma but we do have sightings here and there are people here who are having experiences.

Editor: That’s very interesting. About three months ago, MUFON investigators over in east Tennessee looked into a case involving a man who had a very close encounter with a large triangular craft, and afterwards reported some ill effects. Since then there have been other recent reports of these triangular objects over there too. At any rate, Kim Shaffer was telling me that right after that initial report was posted on their MUFON website, he noticed something that had never happened before. People from places like Boeing and Martin Lockheed were visiting the website, and he couldn’t help feel it was connected.

Susan Hill: You know, it’s very interesting. This is what I do each night. I do the same thing and look and see who visited our website. You can’t always tell, but we had an unusual visitor from Fermi Lab. Are you familiar with Fermi Lab?

Editor: No.

Susan Hill: Let me see. I saw the word Fermi in their IP address, so I asked our chief investigator who is much more knowledgeable about these things than I am and he said it’s got to be Fermi Lab, so I typed it into the search engine and found this website. They’re involved in a lot of different things. They visited our website right after I put up the introduction on Scripted Lives, and I’m sitting here wondering why is anyone at Fermi Lab interested in this. So yeah, it gets kind of interesting sometimes on who is looking at your website.

And we’ve had the Air Force looking and we’ve also had Boeing. So people are paying attention. Maybe quietly.

Editor: You would think if it was someone just their own idle curiosity then they’d use their own email address.

Susan Hill: That’s kind of what I thought. I know that a lot more businesses really scrutinize where their employees are going on the Internet during work hours. They can absolutely go to their terminal and find out where they’ve been, and if they’re messing around with personal stuff, I just don’t think a lot of people do that these days unless they’re really stupid.

Editor: You would think too though that if it was an official interest that they would try to disguise their site with another name or something.

Susan Hill: Well I thought about that and I finally came to the conclusion that I don’t know that they’re trying to hide it. I mean, they’re not going out of the way to draw attention to themselves, but it’s almost like they want you to know that they’re watching you. That’s sometimes what I wonder. I may be wrong. I don’t know.

I don’t hide my interest in this. I know a lot of people who have professions and jobs and I understand why they have to, because it would cause problems, but I don’t work outside the home anymore and so I don’t have to worry about that. Everyone who knows me knows what my interest is.

It seems to me, what I’ve noticed in the last ten years, and another friend of mine, we were talking about this today, she’s very involved in this, and it’s that things are happening quicker. More people are noticing things, or maybe they’re just paying attention. Maybe it’s because the information is so quickly out there. It seems like if more things aren’t happening then more people are reporting them. So maybe it’s a little of both. I don’t know.

Editor: You’ve got to wonder if maybe the Internet in some way because all of the MUFON groups are setting up their own, besides having meetings, they’re setting up their own websites, and kind of creating their own identities. There’s a shift, like you said, and people are not the same now, as it was years ago. There’s change. People you identified MUFON with years ago have changed Even Ray Fowler isn’t the same person he was either. He came to realize that he himself was an experiencer and he talks and writes now about psychic phenomena and synchronicity, and all of these things that you were talking about that were happening to you.

Susan Hill: I don’t know how I failed to mention synchronicity. That is a big part of my life. I don’t know whether it’s because I’m paying more attention now or whether it’s happening more. I’m not sure. But there’s so much synchronicity in my life. I’m convinced now that things happen for a reason. I feel compelled to read a certain book at a certain time and certain people come into your life, and I’ve seen how this works in my own life. It’s amazing how things work in sync with each other.

I just really hope that in my lifetime that we’ll at least get some kind of answer with all of this. Some people think I’m negative thinking. I like to think I’m a realist more than negative. My husband who, bless his heart, he’s been extremely patient and understanding and loving with me through all of this, I’ve seen a change in him because he didn’t believe any of this years ago but he’s seen things that happen to me, he’s seen how it has affected me, so he’s paid attention. Like you said about Ray Fowler, he’s changed. Everyone is changing I think. Most everyone is. But all of us have family members who want to give us trouble.

Editor: Oh yes. I think that everyone can identify there.

Susan Hill: I don’t know what this was all about. It’s about a female cardinal bird, in our other house. This was two years ago. I heard a pecking. There was a female cardinal pecking at my outside back patio storm door. She was on the patio and she jumped up and she pecked, and it was like she was knocking to get in. I thought that it was funny at the time. I walked into the bedroom and I’m hearing a pecking again and I looked through the blinds and there was a patio chair (we had a sliding glass door in our bedroom) and this chair was pulled up to the door and there was that same female cardinal pecking at the glass door. That started getting my attention, and I thought, “It’s like that silly bird followed me into the bedroom from the outside.” So I was just kind of laughing to myself thinking do I need to let this bird in or what, so then I walked back in to the front of the house, I’m in the kitchen, and I’m hearing a pecking again, and this time it’s at the front storm door. I go and there’s that silly bird again. She’s pecking at the front storm door. Jumping up, pecking, jumping up pecking, and I’m thinking, I have never seen a wild bird do something so strange. So of course I tell my husband about it and I didn’t think a whole lot more about it but then the next year, around the same time, it’s in the early Spring, and I hear a pecking at the big glass window in my diningroom and here’s the female cardinal. And I thought surely this can’t be the same bird and she started doing this again, going around pecking at different storm glass doors and windows, and this went on periodically, both years, for about three days, and then it stopped.

Well the house we’re in right now we’ve been in for about eight months. When we were getting ready to move to from other house we’d been there nine years, and my husband and son and some friends had built kind of like a wooden lattice work across our patio. It didn’t have a cover on it, so we were making a cover, and I grew these vines over the top that were really pretty with flowers and stuff. Well we had that covering on there for about seven years and right before we moved, it was only a couple of months before we moved, I was outside looking up at the board, the way that they were nailed up over the patio, and I have a picture of this, ingrained in one of those it looked like the engraving of a cardinal bird. I was just floored.

I had heard about animal totems and I hadn’t really read anything and I didn’t have a thought one way or another about it, but I really starting thinking about it at the time. It was like something was trying to get my attention but I just didn’t have a clue.

Well we sold the house and we bought this one. It’s moving day. I’m over here waiting for the movers to get here. I’m by myself. I’m standing in the middle of the livingroom and I look out through the sliding door, and we have a swimming pool out back and I kid you not, there on the fence was a female cardinal staring straight at me. I think that I broke out in tears at that point. This still chokes me up because I don’t understand really, to this day, what the deal with cardinal is. Other than, well I sort of have an idea but I’m not ready to really talk about it, other than to say that it took me awhile to that it had something to do with St. Louis. I lived in St. Louis, my oldest son was born in St. Louis, when I was first married. The two things that St. Louis is known for is Anheuser-Busch Company and the Cardinal Baseball team. This story really goes on and on, and I’m not prepared to tell the whole thing right now, but ultimately it was almost like this cardinal was leading me in some kind of strange direction with symbology. I don’t know. I still can’t explain this. It’s very emotional to me.

This is just kind of the weird things that happen in my life. I did have a dream of a UFO over my driveway, a couple of years ago, and in the dream my husband and I walked out on our front patio and in the dream my younger son is walking, and it’s a huge UFO, but it’s hovering maybe 30 feet above my driveway, and it’s shining a light down, and in the dream my son just walks off the patio and I told him don’t walk into the light, and he did and he was scared. This son, I strongly suspect has had experiences, from the things he has told me. We’ve all heard about the generational abduction type of thing, and that might be what’s going on. I don’t know.

This same son surprised my husband and I incredibly, a couple of years ago. He was living on his own at the time and we had no idea that he was getting tattoos done, and you talk about shock of a lifetime. He pulled up the sleeves on his shirt and on each arm he has an alien. A huge tattoo of an alien. Number one we were shocked that he even had tattoos done. We had no idea what he was doing. Then to see what he had tattoed on each arm. It’s almost like a subconscious thing with him. I’ve never seen tattoos like that on anyone, and here my son shows up one day with two of them.

Editor: Both of them were like the greys?

Susan Hill: The funny thing of it is that they looked something like greys, but one is a female and one is a male, and they’re kind of child-like looking. It’s almost comical. They’re dressed in like kid’s clothes, but there’s no doubt that they’re alien.

Editor: And you say that he’s had other experiences so you think that he fits into the generational pattern.

Susan Hill: I suspect it. Very good friends of mine absolutely believe it. I am extremely analytical to the point of just being obsessed about, “I’ve got to prove things.”

Editor: You’ve got to be objective.

Susan Hill: Yes. I’ve been known to say that if a UFO landed in my backyard that doesn’t mean it was from outer space. It could be one of ours or it could be one of theirs. I’ve aggravated a lot of people because I seem non-committal to them. It’s just that I’m not going to say anything for sure when I’m not for sure.

Editor: It’s difficult in this field because there’s so many people with strong fixations and they tend to want you to confirm, to validate what they believe.

Now you’ve been personally investigating this case of the love bite phenomenon, as you called it, or it has been called, and you mentioned that it has changed your life also, this investigation. I wonder if you could tell a little bit about what this consisted of, what this was about.

Susan Hill: Well, are you familiar with what the love bite theory is?

Editor: Well, from what I understand, someone who has had an alien experience, they feel, and someone else has had perhaps the same kind of experience, and they’re kind of brought together through perhaps elements of what we would call synchronicity or whatever, maybe steering these two people together.

Susan Hill: You’re on the right track. The love bite to me is too comical a term. I think that it really needs to be a more serious term because, like I say, I have no proof of this, but knowing these people, and I know them very, very well. I’ve known the woman for many, many years, and I’ve known Michael for a couple of years. I read Eve Lorgen’s book, called The Alien Love Bite, a few years ago. Very interested in it, but I didn’t necessarily really believe it. It was just too bizarre. I read her website at the time, and this was before this situation started with Michael and Sarah.

I do believe it is for real. I have seen how it has changed their lives. It’s extremely debilitating. It tears up people’s lives.

I still had trouble dealing with the concept with some kind of outside force seemingly, who knows how it is done, but human emotions are, the individual is not in control of their emotions. It’s just like on Eve’s website, it says that events and emotions are orchestrated and manipulated by an outside force. Initially the idea was that it was strictly ET, but it’s ET and/or human. Ufology is strange enough in itself, but then with this love bite thing it’s even out in left field for ufology. It’s extremely personal. Leah Haley has experienced love bites and I’ve actually talked with her for a number of hours on the phone about this. She’s experienced it herself.

It’s absolutely the most disconcerting thing to think that something could get inside a person’s head and manipulate their feelings and emotions, but this is exactly what’s happening. Budd Hopkins even wrote about this, but didn’t call it by name. A number of people have written about it, but don’t call it by name. It even slipped by me at the time, reading the stories, but in retrospect, knowing what I know now, that’s what was happening. You think your private thoughts and feelings, that’s the last thing that’s private anymore. It’s like we have no privacy.

But like I say I’ve known Sarah for many, many years. I’ve known Michael for a couple of years. I’ve seen the changes in them. They have both talked to me, on very personal levels. I have seen how it has changed their lives. This is what convinced me it is real. I even corresponded with Eve Lorgen about it and I told her, “I read your book a couple of years ago and your website and found it interesting, but I didn’t believe in it at the time, but now I do.” Because it’s such a personal thing that’s why people don’t talk about it. It’s as personal as it gets.

I don’t mean to make light of it, but people think an anal probe by ET is personal, that ain’t nothing compared to what this is. It’s like Eve wrote to me, she said that she’s been through a lot in her life, and she’s been through it, and the emotional roller coaster is unbelievable. Karla Turner wrote about it in the Ted Rice story, Masquerade of Angels.

I absolutely have the utmost respect for Eve Lorgen because her website absolutely deals with this head-on and nobody else does, and that’s why I decided to start writing about this because I don’t have any proof but I absolutely believe these people are telling me the truth. I have seen the changes in them. I think that the more we can get the information out I suspect that there are a lot more people that have been affected like this.

Editor: Well, it’s like the abduction experience. Until ufology really started looking for them we weren’t really finding them like we were until after Hopkins wrote about them and Strieber’s book came out. Thousands then came out of the woodwork.

Susan Hill: It was fear. You don’t want to be the first kid on the block to talk about it because everyone is going to think you’re crazy, but then there are those who are absolutely courageous and they do take that step forward and they talk about it, and then like you said it kind of opens the floodgates.

I don’t necessarily have the warm and fuzzy feelings about this, but yet I don’t think it’s all negative either. I’m just not sure. I’ve seen evidence for both the positive things and the negative things going on here, and that’s why a lot of people get aggravated at me. “You’re so non- committal.” Well, I’m just calling it as I see it from my own personal view. I can’t speak for anyone else.

There’s another trend that I’m seeing. Something is happening to people that I know, personally, and I’ve experienced it myself, that it seems the Sixth Sense, psychic abilities, or whatever you want to call it, are becoming stronger. I can’t say why. I don’t know. My husband has seen this, multiple times, and I don’t know if this has anything to do with this or not, but I have a lot of bad luck with electrical appliances and things breaking down. I’ll just give you an example that’s happened at least twice with the microwave. It doesn’t put me in a very good light, but there were two different instances with two different microwaves where I was extremely upset and agitated, and the microwave just died. In both cases, my husband had just used the microwave before I did.

I wonder if there was negative energy with this other house, because we had so many problems in the nine years, of one kind or another. I’ve been married for 28 years and those were the worst nine years of my life. I had so many electrical things just break within a couple of months of time. I’m always the one right there in front of it, using it. My husband’s pick-up, the engine just died on it. I was driving it, which was very rare that I ever drove his pick-up. It’s things like that. I’ve noticed that it’s progressively gotten worse. I have a friend and he’s noticing the same things happening at his home.

I don’t know what it is. Things are changing.

Editor: I recently had someone write to me expressing the idea that the growing number of UFO experiencers are part of the next evolutionary step or development in humankind.

Susan Hill: I’ve kind of heard the same thing before, and I tend to agree with that. Now I certainly do not think that I’m the chosen person. I’m not special. I’m just a common, ordinary citizen of the United States. But changes are happening, and I don’t know why. I’m constantly questioning why to the point of where I almost feel like it’s a compulsion. I’ve got to find the answer, and my husband is my counterpart in this because he’s a lot more patient than I am, and he said, “You’ll know the answer when it’s time.” Now this is coming from someone who didn’t believe a lick of this ten years ago.

Editor: Yeah. That’s sage wisdom there.

Susan Hill: Yeah, it really is. I’m not a patient person. That’s another thing that I would like to tell you in this situation with Michael and Sarah. When this thing started two years ago and they kept me abreast of everything that happened from the beginning up until now, and it’s still going on, by the way. I did not believe in reincarnation. I was raised a Southern Baptist. I haven’t gone to a mainstream church in 20 years but that certain dogma was still ingrained in me. If you believed in reincarnation then you’re going to burn in hell. Well, I tell you what, that’s another thing that I had a real problem whether this was a love bite between the two of them. It’s like I said in the article, when I started researching this and so many of the symptoms of the “love bite” seem very similar to what the symptoms are for what they call twin souls. Now in the love bite, they’ll tell you that that’s one of the symptoms of a love bite is that you feel that you’ve known this person before, you feel like your soul connected, and that’s what Michael and Sarah believe. They feel like they’ve known each other in a past life. I mean, it goes really deeper than that.

And so, I’m kind of coming in at this angle in a different way than Eve Lorgen has or even Karla Turner did.

Editor: Are Sarah and Michael both UFO experiencers?

Susan Hill: Yes. On one side it is a classic story of a love bite, with a lot of additional things, and that’s what I’m going to be writing about. So anyway, back to this thing on reincarnation, the things they were telling me I really started wondering about reincarnation. I had already read some books and had read some stuff on the Internet, but I really started searching, and that’s when I came across Nicholas Schmidt’s website. We’ve got it listed on our website. I thought it was one of the best websites on explaining about reincarnation and soul mates.

People can just make up their own minds really. I’m just not sure. I know it looks like this one day and it looks like the other another day.

Editor: And that’s what being scientific is about, is exploring all of your options, and bounce the ideas off of other people in the field. Of course, sometimes they’re not to receptive to it, but it’s what the scientific process is supposed to be about, to compare and analyze, and to try and understand these things better and to make sure that before you arrive at a conclusion, and a lot of them jump at it, but anyway before we arrive at a final conclusion to make sure that there is not some other possibility. Of course, I’m just repeating what you’re already saying and knowing. But a lot of people in the field, for some reason or other, they get at a certain place and it’s like they’re in a psychological straightjacket and they can’t get themselves undone from it and they don’t progress any further beyond that orientation where they’re at.

Susan Hill: Psychological straightjacket. That’s good. (Laughs)

Editor: That’s what it makes me think of. Someone else had used that expression once, and I kind of thought that’s kind of the way it is sometimes.

Susan Hill: I’m not out to prove anything to anyone. I’m not trying to change people’s attitudes or make them to think the way I am. My whole thing is really a personal thing. I’m just personally trying to find answers.

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