Judy Oates, with daughter Torrey and son Cody.

An Interview with Judy Oates, author of “2012 The Fourth Dimension,” and wife of the late actor Warren Oates

by Brent Raynes

Judy Oates is not your ordinary novelist. A great deal of scientific, mythological and metaphysical information is woven into each of her books. She points out that her novels may be perceived as ‘elementary’ or ‘introductory’ in nature and that they follow a progression of themes with a relationship to the Mayan Calendar date of December 21, 2012. Potentials of what could happen before, on and after this momentous date are explored in her writings.

Editor: Judy, before we begin discussing your books, please describe for us how your interest in metaphysics first evolved.

Judy Oates: Comparative religion and metaphysics were of great interest to me in my twenties. About the time that Thelma Moss brought Kirlian photography to America in the sixties, there were many gatherings of healers and clairvoyants in Los Angeles. I was a guest at many of the get-togethers. In my thirties I married the actor, Warren Oates. Both he and I were very interested in metaphysics and were wide-spectrum in our appreciation of all knowledge.

When Warren died, our children were only two and three years of age. I asked one of our clairvoyant friends to visit the night of his passing. I asked the question, "What is it that is the most significant event that is going to happen after the turn of the century?” The psychic informed me about 'Earth Changes'. I ordered books by Edgar Cayce and fled to New Zealand with my two children a year after Warren's death. Cayce regarded New Zealand as a 'safety zone’ and so that was the incentive for going there. I think that when you’re the only surviving parent your desire to do the right thing and to keep promises is quite intense.

Cayce was such a beautiful soul and he had this incredible ability not only to help individuals with physical conditions and ailments, but he was also so phenomenally astute as far as his prophecies. The era in which Cayce lived was not as close to the year 2012 as let’s say we are right now, so he gave visions of what he called ‘the age of warning,’ ‘the age of cataclysm,’ and then he gave information about, after that had subsided, what the world could anticipate after 2012. Well, of course, my promise was that I would find a ‘safety zone,’ so I went through the initial stages of enormous fear and looking for survival, like “where can I settle so that I won’t have to re-locate.” So that was the reason for New Zealand because I had actually lived there maybe six or eight years before that time and had found it to be a wonderful country with wonderful people.

It was basically about keeping that promise. I went through these enormous stages and phases of what I would call survival. It took me many years to go through the transitions, which basically weren’t just on the physical level but affected me on a psychological, emotional, and spiritual level. I bought dehydrated food, had umpteen gallons of water, had batteries, and all of the things that one is supposed to do in preparation on a physical level. But I think it took me years to work it out psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually, and what I tried to do through the books, because I went through the phases, is to alleviate that burden of fear as much as I could. The third book actually provides solutions, because the third book is of a spiritual content, but I don’t want to phrase it too much in spiritual terms as I don’t want to alienate the audience - especially if it’s a younger audience because it might sound like preaching, so to speak, and that’s a deterrent. So it’s phrased in very logical, rational, therapeutic ways, but it’s not difficult. It’s a very simple formula of how to reintegrate an attitude to life, so to speak, and it’s basically what has been called polarity integration.

Anyway, I lived in New Zealand for three years, during which time I became an invalid with the Tapanui Flu. Eight years later, the medical world labeled the condition as Epstein Barr or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. My children had just lost their father and I was of no use to anyone. When I was strong enough to return to the United States I made an appointment for further testing. I can remember embracing the condition with full acceptance and love on one dramatic afternoon. Additionally, I promised to be of service to others and I asked to be an instrument. I experienced a 'miraculous and instantaneous healing'.

It has now been twenty-two years and I have never had a relapse. I was still seeking refuge in the United States for a 'safety zone.’ This was not as important to me as it was for my children. It was a promise to Warren.

Editor: Was your husband Warren worried about finding a ‘safety zone’? Was he into that part of the metaphysical?

Judy Oates: Yes, he was.

Oddly enough, before Warren died, he was collecting gold like mad. He was burying them in the basement of the house. He had purchased land in Montana, in an area where Peter Fonda later came and so did Dennis Quaid and there were many writers up there who were quite well known. It was kind of an artsy group, so to speak, that formed a nucleus there because Tom McGuane originally wrote The Missouri Breaks, and Marlon Brando and Jack Nicholson were in that film. Warren went to say hello to all of them and fell in love with the area and ultimately purchased a section of land there.

So yes, he thought that it would be a refuge for many. Warren was not aware of ‘Earth Changes’ per se, but he was very intuitive. He felt that something ‘ominous’ loomed in the future, but he could not define it. The syndrome in Montana is ‘nine months of winter and three months of company.’ People do work together well in this area and help one another. He felt that section of land would provide refuge for those in need.

However, through my encounter with Aron Abrahamsen I never felt that that was going to be ‘safety zone,’ even though there’s quite a group up there. When I spoke to Aron, he and I both felt that Paradise Valley was not necessarily a ‘safety zone.’

At that time, I was looking for a ‘safety zone,’ but now I have no fear of where I am.

Editor: So Aron Abrahamsen is a channeler?

Judy Oates: Actually Aron was someone who did life readings, past lives, and he was very, very involved with the ARE. Aron was also involved with a book called, We Are the Earthquake Generation, which was co-authored with Dr. Jeffrey Goodman, about their trek throughout the United States and Aron’s feelings about how like 100,000 years ago an Indian group settled here. Aron could almost read the earth and tell you the history of certain locations and where he felt certain faults were.

Editor: You mentioned your interest back in the 1960s with Thelma Moss and Kirlian photography, the workshops and the lectures were going on. Was it a similar path for Warren as well?

Joan Oates: Oh definitely. In fact, it’s probably one of the least known features of Warren. We went to the Bohdi Tree which is like the number one New Age bookstore in the nation back when it was just a little shop run by hippies and totally disorganized, and absolutely wonderful. Now it’s this giant, so to speak, in the New Age book industry.

We were both ravenous readers and it was nothing to read a book in an evening. Warren was still very much looking for the answers and he found a lot of answers from a poetic perspective from the American Indians and their philosophy and their prophecies. He was reading every book, whether it was from eastern origin or Rudolf Steiner. That was definitely part of his regime, but that was information that he could share with very few people. People were much more interested in who he knew, or who he had lunch with. It was more of a Hollywood exchange.

Editor: Of course, back then everything was different. Though today when you talk about the Hollywood scene and the paranormal you think of Shirley MacLaine. Did you guys ever happen to have any conversations with her?

Judy Oates: No, no. We didn’t have that good fortune.

Warren was kind of in the bad boys group. You know, the Jack Nicholson, Peter Fonda, and Dennis Hopper - the bad boys. Steve McQueen would come and visit. And definitely you have to include Sam Peckinpah, the director. He has to be included. In fact, ultimately we ended up sharing this 640 acre ranch with Sam. They became partners in that venture.

Then when Warren died, and Sam died a year later, Dennis Quaid purchased the ranch.

While attending a two year program at the Waldorf Institute (Rudolf Steiner) I visited the Berkshires and my being resounded with affirmations. Ten years later Gordon Michael Scallion announced that it was one of the ten safety zones in America. I am 64 years of age now and I am no longer frightened of 'The Earth Changes.' However, because my reaction was so violent, I can identify with those who are very uncomfortable with this concept which is now physically becoming more and more a reality. There are phases that one must go through on the physical, emotional and psychological and ultimately, spiritual levels to meet these challenging days. Because I experienced the phases, earlier than most, I want to assist those who are just becoming familiar with this prophecy.

Editor: You talked about how you suffered with chronic fatigue syndrome and then you went through this inner dialogue, stating that you wanted to do something positive and to help people, and I think that by that time you’d already had a reading from Aron Abrahamsen that you were going to produce some books that were going to help people, so you decided that you were going to do something and it was like a miraculous healing.

Judy Oates: Yes, before I left for New Zealand, I had a life reading from Aron. He said that I would write seven 'little golden books' that would be of value to children and adults. He said this was my destiny in this incarnation. He also provided readings for my two children and stressed their roles in view of 'Earth Changes.'

What happened was that when I was in New Zealand I really thought that I was dying and I came back to America, I saw several doctors here, and no one could tell me what was wrong with me. Everyone gave up. They just didn’t know what to do. No medical assistance was of any value to me, and so I tried to make up my own regime of exercising for about two minutes, because I was so weak I couldn’t even squeeze a ball. And so trying to walk fourteen steps instead of thirteen, and setting these goals, but I think that the one thing that I had to come to terms with is that I had to learn how to love my affliction. And, you see, there were no books, there were no instructors, so you keep looking for answers within yourself, and I said that whatever it is that I am to experience I am to be grateful to you, and I said that I am not so sure that I understand, but I must have chosen this because I always believed in reincarnation. So I said, “I embrace you and I love you.”

One morning I had just been tested with all types of breathing apparatuses, a series of tests that I had done, and it actually happened in the car when I returned to blessing, loving, and embracing the condition, because for a long time I couldn’t even drive even for a short distance. And, all of a sudden, I felt a presence leave my body. It was a total physical sensation, and I had always said that if I regained my health the one thing that I wanted to do was help others. I was not allowed to do anything which I thought was contributory other than, you know, going to work, taking care of my children, whatever. It was a little microcosm, so to speak, of what all of us have to do in life. There wasn’t an ounce of energy other than working and taking care of my family that I had to give to anyone. Not that I didn’t want to.

Editor: You just didn’t have time, and energy.

Judy Oates: Yes. And as my children grew older, and finally I had a time in which I wasn’t working six days and six nights. Then two years ago, I was tutoring a young boy of ten who was being home-schooled. His mother said he could study anything he wanted. He said he wanted to study mythology, astronomy and astrology. His family was preparing a trip to the Grand Canyon, so he wanted to know if the American Indians had any prophecies. The prophecies of the indigenous people are very complementary to those of Gordon-Michael Scallion, Aron Abrahamsen and Edgar Cayce. When the boy returned to public school four months later I did not want the project to end.

A child led me to the writing of the books. I had always felt that my purpose was writing something that was so simple, like a manual. It gets sophisticated in the books though, and I couldn’t help that because much of the information you cannot rearrange. You cannot make it any simpler because you need the accuracy. You know, if they say there are seven components in something then you have to list what the components are, whether they’re understood or whether you can translate that readily or not. Basically, it was so that if you were unfamiliar with many of the aspects which are all integrated and there are at least 100 topics in each book, so that if you weary of one little subject don’t worry. It’s over in a page or two.

You see, it’s to show that there is an interrelationship and so much information which we relate to the year 2012 and to prophecy.

Editor: Well a lot of people are very interested. It’s getting closer all of the time.

Judy Oates: It’s amazing because it’s less than five years away.

Editor: When somebody asks me I tell them that it says that it’s the end of a cycle but the beginning of a new one.

Judy Oates: Exactly.

Editor: And so not to get too freaked out.

Okay, please tell us more about the books.

Judy Oates: My daughter, Torrey, invented character's names and personality traits. My son, Cody, became the storyline editor. The most important part of the books is the information. Character development and extensive descriptions have been sacrificed. When you self-publish, the number of pages determines the price of the book the reader's will inherit. The three of us write under the pseudonym of Manda which is an Aramaic word meaning knowledge. We return full credit to the true authors, the names or websites mentioned in the bibliography. We consider ourselves more as researchers or assimilators.

I sent copies of the chapters to Gordon-Michael Scallion. He suggested self-publishing. He also generously offered to promote it on his website when it was finished. I renewed contact with Aron and Doris Abrahamsen. Aron was in the process of writing a book and informed me about a more reasonable publisher. Aron and Doris read the first book and wrote the Foreword. They found the concept of two stories going on at once (the metaphysical information and the odyssey) entertaining.

I have been greatly assisted in this process. The first book was written during the time I was a House Parent for twenty-two mentally disabled women. A staff member loaned me her computer during various hours to write the books. Every time I could not find a source for information that I knew had to be integrated, it was provided to me within the day. When I thought I could not qualify for loans for various services and publications, suddenly there were sources.

Editor: It’s very interesting how things can work out.

Judy Oates: All of the books are very multi-dimensional, so to speak. I mean, the first book has almost 400 quotes, because I included a tremendous amount of scientific substantiation. What is the latest in quantum physics? What is the latest in astronomy? You know, all of the categories. Especially if it somehow substantiates something that metaphysics has known for a long time.

For a description of '2012 The Fourth Dimension,' please visit manda2012.com and click Book One. For a description of Content of '2012 PlanET' please visit manda2012.com and click Book Two.

Here is a brief overview. The Lyra Legacy Chronicles: Book One is a compilation of prophecies of Gordon-Michael Scallion and the American Indians. Scientific information is also included. The characters are families of five races encountering information concerning 'Earth Changes' and how they interpret and react to 'The Age of Warning'. Each of the characters, whether they be children or adult are quasi-dysfunctional. The first book informs the reader how to prepare for 'Earth Changes' on a physical level. Some of the characters are offended by the information, others are responsive. The novels are easy to read, although they are infused with some rather sophisticated material, because comprehensiveness and accuracy had to exist. The books are intended to educate in a subtle and sometimes humorous manner considering the characters involved. (A New Age family, a Muslim family, a Buddhist family, a Catholic family struggling with integrating their Mayan ancestry, Rednecks, a Born Again Christian, some only interested in conspiracy theories, others only interested in science, etc.)

Instead of describing what preparations are necessary (dehydrated food, water, lanterns, etc., plus the establishment of a community garden) the children visit a family that has made these preparations. Instead of describing the characteristics of 'the Blue Rays', they are cousins visiting one family. Instead of saying that only three rays will be allowed to enter Earth at the conclusion of 'Earth Changes', the children create an impromptu play about the realms in the afterlife. One of the children is on the 'Hero's Journey'. He is a geomancer and has Asberger’s Syndrome. He is instrumental with providing an understanding of the new grid. Gordon-Michael Scallion has been kind enough to let me reproduce drawings of the old grid and the new grid in the book.

Much information is given about our relationship with the Pleiadians, how the catastrophe on Mars occurred, the contributions of the Dogon tribe and the significance the pyramids and Phobos will hold in the future.

Book Two was inspired by reading The Earth Chronicles by Zecharia Sitchin. Sitchin is not quoted in the book. The theme has more to do with a metaphysical interpretation of our relationship not only with the Anunnaki but also other extraterrestrial groups. The second book seeks to provide the readers with an 'attitude to life' that will be instrumental on a psychological and emotional level considering the acceleration of 'Earth Changes'.

Considerations for the readers are: the existence of a personal and planetary Merkaba; the validity of the Philadelphia Experiment and the Montauk Project; a hyperspace rift; time travel; alien technology; the New World Order; the Sumerian Solar System; vortexes; the seven rays and their roles; the chakras and the Mayan Calendar; archetypes; Carl Jung and Alchemy; the significance of the Shadow; the Anunnaki; the Greys; orme; numerology; the dimensions; ascension; Cherokee prophecies; alchemists; the Origin of Conflict in the Middle East; the P'taah, and the role of the Ouroboros.

Book Three will not be released until November of 2008. The title of the book is 'reality rEVOLUTION'. It will focus on the spiritual preparations necessary regarding 'the Age of Cataclysm', the second phase of 'Earth Changes'.

I have only briefly mentioned the negative aspects accompanying 'Earth Changes' in all of the books. It is not my intention to frighten the readers. I have also tried to substitute spiritual words or phrases as much as possible to make the texts more palatable. They will see the introductory books first as books of information, secondly as an adventure, and thirdly as mystery novels.

Ten percent of the proceeds from the first book will be donated to indigenous people. Ten percent of the proceeds from the second book will be donated to freeing children from slavery.